HR and aging

I did a search but didn't find anything that applies to what I'm experiencing. It may be nothing, but I have a very hard time getting my HR above 150. I'll be 54 next month, I take BP meds (Valsartan 160mg) and Meloxicam (7.5mg). My most recent cholesterol was 164 with all the right numbers and ratios. I take a low dose Lipitor (20mg). My resting HR is usually 50-52 bpm and upon waking it's often in upper 40's.

I've been doing quite a bit of Zwift with my Wahoo KICKR and have steadily raised my FTP about 50 watts since December but even if I completely sell out on a climb to the point that my legs are about to quit, my HR might get to 155. I did a MTB race yesterday on my gravel bike and averaged 131 bpm with a max of 150. I was working hard, I chased down some guys riding the proper bikes after they gapped me on some single track and pulled them back. It just seems odd that my HR seems to have a governor around 150.

By definition I have Bradycardia but I also consider myself an athlete so that's a factor in my HR being low. In my 20's and early 30's I had a similar low HR but I could also get into the upper 180's, low 190's on a sprint. I'd time trial 170-175 for 40K. Now I wonder what is going on if anything or if it's just a matter of getting older.

Hey Bill - I am not a doctor nor play one on TV.
And ...I generally don't pipe-in on threads about people's medical situations because unlike stating an option about disc/non-disc, Shimano/Campy, tubeless/tubular, health questions can be life or death.
And ...if you are concerned, you should see a heart doc that specializes in athletes and has a lot of experience with endurance athletes.

I have been through some heart stuff over the last couple of years and picked a few bits of knowledge while under the care of a top performance heart doc.

1. Blood pressure meds, beta blockers, and other heart meds can cap your max HR. I certainly don't know if what you are taking can but I was on some for a bit and they absolutely did. It was like a sock in carburetor.
2. While many athletes always take pride in a low resting HR, my docs response was simply "I am not sure a group of people think having the heart beat really slowly is a good thing. It can be dangerous". This coming from a guy that works with a lot of top athletes.
3. Heart health trumps performance gains. Every once and a while I had to say that out loud as I was getting dropped from a group that 20 years ago would have never come close to happening.

Meds can affect all of this-

I also have a low-ish hr. I used to be able to time trial at 170 bpm- Nowadays I am going hard at about 150 bpm. I am also 154. No meds and 145 lb.

One of the things that I have been doing of late is intervals targeted at raising the heartrate. VO2 max type efforts- like 5x5 minutes.
Goal of the effort is to go super hard and raise the heartrate- Keep cadence up rather than grind and really work for some hard breathing.
I got up to 157 bpm on my last session- I am hoping to get to 160 or better.
My theory is that with all of the FTP focused training I just haven't gone to that cave in a while ;)

C-a-r-d-i-o-l-o-g-i-s-t

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Originally Posted by Bewheels

And ...if you are concerned, you should see a heart doc that specializes in athletes and has a lot of experience with endurance athletes.

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Originally Posted by Clyde

C-a-r-d-i-o-l-o-g-i-s-t

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Amen. Like Brian I'm going to a top-flight performance doc, one who specializes in nutjob endurance athletes.

Hello my fellow mid-50's endurance athletes! I too have an electrical problem, an arrhythmia. Like others, a low resting HR was a point of pride. Like Brian points out this is actually another risk factor.

My primary care physician and cardiologist are also casual athletes, and they put me on a beta blocker. This dropped the bottom out of the engine room. Resting HR in the 30's, sometimes 5 seconds between beats. Went to the specialist and he says that's contra-indicated for my particular malady. Welcome news. Managing the motor is an ongoing challenge. Have not figured it out yet, but no longer chasing the 1000-km distance and 7500-meter vertical monthly Strava challenges has helped.

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Originally Posted by boots2000

My theory is that with all of the FTP focused training I just haven't gone to that cave in a while

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My theory is that I already spent too much time in that cave. It's nicer outside the cave.

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Originally Posted by Bewheels

Heart health trumps performance gains.

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Amen, brother. There's more to riding than numbers on the heart-lunger, watt-o-meter, or Strava machine. Time to smell the flowers (or ramps or stinkhorn or whatever grows in your neck of the woods).

TH

PS Have all you aging hammerheads had your bone density checked lately?

I am in the same age range and background. It was not so long ago that with effort (running or biking) my max HR could be c 190. Running would always get my HR a little higher than biking. This is normal I believe. As my max HR reduced, along with my capability, I decided to stop wearing a monitor and go with perceived rate of exertion. This has stopped me from competing with the me that existed years ago. My Dr said "let it go". regards.

Like Brian and Todd, after decades of high intensity riding, I joined the arrhythmia club. I, and my GP (a reformed nut job ironman who had had his own intensity induced health issues), firmly believe that all the high intensity cycling, particularly in my 50s, is the root cause of the issue. I now have it under control following a $60,000 day medical procedure, an ablation. I still love to ride but my fast days are behind me.

Now, I rarely allow my pulse to climb higher than the high 120s. When I'm tempted by someone flying ahead, I ask myself how many championship jerseys does that guy have?

I vividly remember my first visit to the cardiologist's office. I looked around at the patients in the waiting room and said to myself I don't think I belong here. But I did; I was just a different type of patient.

If you are having heart issues, don't be bashful about finding yourself a cardiologist with experience in treating athletes.

Me, it was adriamycin that got them looking at the heart and how it behaved and all so I've been down the road of numerous odd results - low ejection fractions, then those were good but back wall slow then everything perfect. Cardiologist with emphasis on non-intrusive path himself an endurance athlete said screw it we're going in. Nothing unusual found, so my theory that at some point I get tired enough that I can't raise HR is a thing. If you're cranking same watts and HR won't go you're fit. If you can't crank watts you're tired or you're sick. Me, I was in the "you're a puzzle" category. We're all individuals. If you don't want them to tell you what it could be because you don't want them to tell you to stop take my example. Find out. It could be nothing.

Have you tried porn?

Seriously, as presumably has been mentioned above, your doctor can better address this issue than the forum members.

Unless it has to do with porn.

I feel at my higher end 60s of age, having a HR is just fine. Some of my old friends aren't as lucky as me don'thave a HR anymore. Like me, my heart goes as fast as it goes and as long as it keeps going, it's all good with me. I used to follow Heart rates, power, mph but I don't even own a preformance moniter of any kind. I used to have a resting heart rate in the 30 to low 40s and could ride with the pretty fast guys. Now I am just the old fut out there on a really nice steel or Ti bike with no electronics. Probably having more fun than I ever had as a much younger racer. Lately fixed gears and single speeds interest me more than geared bikes unless I go to the hills.
Part of the aging process is getting old. Things hurt that use to not and strength, performance and speed goes down. If you are on any heart medication I am not too sure it is all that good for you to push to redline heart rate any way. Get used to it, it does not get better as the numbers go up. There are a few outliers that seem to not slow down as much as others, and certainly the aging MDs can dope you up to ride stronger, but in 100 more years will anyone really care what your heart rate was today? I am out the door to ride again right now , it is my lucky day. Again, Peace all.

Interesting article in the Times about the physical adaptations of an athlete's heart: The Heart of a Swimmer vs. the Heart of a Runner

Nothing about the electrical changes, or potential risks. One thing for sure, if you have all that muscle mass and are no longer training it to be quick and agile, it's not going to be as quick and agile as it once was. Are our hearts like aging linebackers? Maybe our electrical problems are analogous to CTE?

But they do mention the theory that swimmers' hearts adapt differently because of the horizontal position while working out. I first noticed my symptoms while lying down, and I know several riders who are keenly aware of what their heart is doing while reclined. I still can't sleep on my side, else it triggers the palpitations.

And one thing that separates cyclists from runners or swimmers or rowers. Make that two things. We tend to work out for much longer periods of time. And we tend to go very deep into that pain cave, we practically collapse on the bike atop a long climb, or after taking a pull. You can't do that while running or swimming.

TH

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/athl...eart-5-638.jpg

In my prime I had a max heart of around 205 bmp. Up until my late 30’’s I had a max of in the high 190’s. I went pretty hard the other day and I got a max rate of 184 but I had to make my eye bleed. On the flip side I has a high resting heart rate which is about 60 bmp and can get up to 70bmp if I’m dehydrated or sick or sleepless. It has been in the low 50’s before but that’s when I am in super shape and all conditions are firing well. Interestingly my Father is very similar to me. He is actually on mild blood thinners because it natural hemocrit is in the low 50’s.

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Originally Posted by thollandpe

Interesting article in the Times about the physical adaptations of an athlete's heart: The Heart of a Swimmer vs. the Heart of a Runner

Nothing about the electrical changes, or potential risks. One thing for sure, if you have all that muscle mass and are no longer training it to be quick and agile, it's not going to be as quick and agile as it once was. Are our hearts like aging linebackers? Maybe our electrical problems are analogous to CTE?

But they do mention the theory that swimmers' hearts adapt differently because of the horizontal position while working out. I first noticed my symptoms while lying down, and I know several riders who are keenly aware of what their heart is doing while reclined. I still can't sleep on my side, else it triggers the palpitations.

And one thing that separates cyclists from runners or swimmers or rowers. Make that two things. We tend to work out for much longer periods of time. And we tend to go very deep into that pain cave, we practically collapse on the bike atop a long climb, or after taking a pull. You can't do that while running or swimming.

TH

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/athl...eart-5-638.jpg

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Thanks for the posting. Man, all this talk is making me more than ever want to ride for fun and limit time in the pain cave.

I wouldn't pretend to give advice on this thread not being a md or playing one on tv...but aside from all of the discussion above there is something that I found useful and has not changed with age.

So, now let me be my mother with her finger pointing at you.

While HR is different as I age, if I find my HR is higher than normal for similar effort then it means I am sick or over trained/ over tired.

So I guess I am saying don't pay so much attention to the absolute numbers as much as the relative numbers because the change for same effort (compared to recent past not years ago when you were still fresh faced and innocent) can mean something as simple as you are getting a cold to something more serious.

Just as an update, since I've been mountain biking, I've upped my average HR and been >170 several times. Not so much on the road bike, still low, but my off road adventures have upped my HR game. I think it's the interval nature of mountain biking, the closer the intervals are together, the less recovery and I see a cumulative effect.

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Originally Posted by bigbill

Just as an update, since I've been mountain biking, I've upped my average HR and been >170 several times. Not so much on the road bike, still low, but my off road adventures have upped my HR game. I think it's the interval nature of mountain biking, the closer the intervals are together, the less recovery and I see a cumulative effect.

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I was referred to a cardiologist this last summer as my GP decided she heard a “murmur”, long story short I apparently am showing calcification of the Mitrial valve - they tell me that I carry on as normal, or as close to it as possible until it becomes necessary to replace the valve.

Needless to say this came as a bit of a surprise, but certainly helped to explain why my endurance and ability to get my heart rate up had been falling off so much for a couple of years.

This winter has been deadly, not able to go to AZ riding the rollers inside and bored to tears with them. We don’t have a lot of snow this year so I think the MTB will come down just to try and get some variety.

Sort of sideways looking at rowing machines or something to add variety but of course there is no inventory of anything ....your post makes me more serious about getting the mtb off the hooks and getting outside.

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Originally Posted by joosttx

....but I had to make my eye bleed.....

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You are awesome Joosttx

We should all be trying this hard.

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Originally Posted by TMB

I was referred to a cardiologist this last summer as my GP decided she heard a “murmur”, long story short I apparently am showing calcification of the Mitrial valve - they tell me that I carry on as normal, or as close to it as possible until it becomes necessary to replace the valve.

Needless to say this came as a bit of a surprise, but certainly helped to explain why my endurance and ability to get my heart rate up had been falling off so much for a couple of years.

This winter has been deadly, not able to go to AZ riding the rollers inside and bored to tears with them. We don’t have a lot of snow this year so I think the MTB will come down just to try and get some variety.

Sort of sideways looking at rowing machines or something to add variety but of course there is no inventory of anything ....your post makes me more serious about getting the mtb off the hooks and getting outside.

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My fitness was gone by December. With the Lupus and stopping my daily Meloxicam, I was in extreme discomfort until mid December when I started seeing results from Plaquenil in reducing inflammation. It was like starting my fitness from zero, at age 55. I walk around 6K steps a day at work and have been riding the trainer in the afternoon trying to rebuild some kind of aerobic base. Last weekend I did a two hour gravel ride that should have been <90 minutes but I missed a turn. The best thing I can do at the moment is to lose weight and recover my fitness, in that order. I'm in the last 6 weeks of my Masters program, I'll have more time after that.

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Originally Posted by bigbill

My fitness was gone by December. With the Lupus and stopping my daily Meloxicam, I was in extreme discomfort until mid December when I started seeing results from Plaquenil in reducing inflammation. It was like starting my fitness from zero, at age 55. I walk around 6K steps a day at work and have been riding the trainer in the afternoon trying to rebuild some kind of aerobic base. Last weekend I did a two hour gravel ride that should have been <90 minutes but I missed a turn. The best thing I can do at the moment is to lose weight and recover my fitness, in that order. I'm in the last 6 weeks of my Masters program, I'll have more time after that.

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This describes my situation perfectly. My fitness is essentially zero at the moment, my endurance is pretty much gone and I struggle to get my HR up. I need to get back on the trainer, it bored to tears with it. The snow is pretty much gone so I think the MTB will be coming out. I suspect it will be some time before I am able to get to 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by TMB

This describes my situation perfectly. My fitness is essentially zero at the moment, my endurance is pretty much gone and I struggle to get my HR up. I need to get back on the trainer, it bored to tears with it. The snow is pretty much gone so I think the MTB will be coming out. I suspect it will be some time before I am able to get to 2 hours.

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By the time days get longer, I will have scouted out some routes for afternoon weekday rides on dirt roads. When it gets hot, I'll roll out pre-dawn with lights during the week. Weekends I hope to be on the road bike.

I have been getting two hours a day by riding in the woods or skate skiing, depending on conditions. The baseline effort for both is fairly high, with short intervals that make the baseline effort obvious: you stop and listen to your heart pounding as the woods around sit quietly. A few times I have done recovery rides indoors because of schedule, but I'd rather suck it up and ride at 23 degrees than slog in front of a clock in the basement. Cold is a non-issue on skis, pretty much. But for this in my daily schedule I would not sleep. Being able to ski has made life in New England possible for this expat Californian. I'd suffer were I not to go outdoors on a daily basis, weather be damned.

I joined the aFib club in 2004. Never had another recurrence. No medication. But I learned not to obsess about politics.

I think steady-state riding on the rivet is a precursor. Also electrolyte imbalance.

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Originally Posted by bigbill

By the time days get longer, I will have scouted out some routes for afternoon weekday rides on dirt roads. When it gets hot, I'll roll out pre-dawn with lights during the week. Weekends I hope to be on the road bike.

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The cardiologist decided to wait two years and monitor and see how it was going - last weeks update he upgraded my valve damage to sever and said either repair or replace - so, had the T.E.E. this morning and chest x-rays scheduled for Friday - as he said - we want to repair, not replace as replacement valves have a finite lifespan. So now I sit and wait until he tells me what the verdict is.

in the meantime I am puttering in the yard and my workshop and have been told to stay away from the bike.

Aging .....

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Originally Posted by TMB

The cardiologist decided to wait two years and monitor and see how it was going - last weeks update he upgraded my valve damage to sever and said either repair or replace - so, had the T.E.E. this morning and chest x-rays scheduled for Friday - as he said - we want to repair, not replace as replacement valves have a finite lifespan. So now I sit and wait until he tells me what the verdict is.

in the meantime I am puttering in the yard and my workshop and have been told to stay away from the bike.

Aging .....

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I can't like your post, but I do.
Puttering is good!

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Originally Posted by ides1056

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I joined the aFib club in 2004. Never had another recurrence. No medication. But I learned not to obsess about politics.

I think steady-state riding on the rivet is a precursor. Also electrolyte imbalance.

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Similar story to mine.
aFib episode in 2002.
Also no recurrence, thankfully, and I was given the same advice about extended high intensity efforts and dehydration/electrolyte imbalance.

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Originally Posted by TMB

The cardiologist decided to wait two years and monitor and see how it was going - last weeks update he upgraded my valve damage to sever and said either repair or replace - so, had the T.E.E. this morning and chest x-rays scheduled for Friday - as he said - we want to repair, not replace as replacement valves have a finite lifespan. So now I sit and wait until he tells me what the verdict is.

in the meantime I am puttering in the yard and my workshop and have been told to stay away from the bike.

Aging .....

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I had a stress test in December and got the all-clear. I've lost a bunch of weight (on purpose) but still have a low heartrate when I ride.

Last night I learned that one can use their Apple watch (or similar) to mimic a multi-lead ECG. Never occurred to me and think others might also find this useful.

Single-Lead ECG Recordings Including Einthoven and Wilson Leads by a Smartwatch, Samol et al.

I've been having some weirdness (suddenly high HR when toodling along, previously rare but not so much now) and think it might help to bring some objective data to the doc. Not trying to self-diagnose, but having an event reading might help me cut in line: cardiologist needs referral, had to wait 'til PCP back from vacation, blood test before visit, next appt... So, yeah, one of them 51 y.o. former cat 2 types, big-boned running back build loves crushing the climbs kind of deal.

The "see a doc who works with athletes" suggestion resonates. My thing happened to me again yesterday so I rode to the urgent clinic, where the doc patiently explained to me that the pulse goes up when riding a bike. :rolleyes:

Anyway, it might be old news but I thought it clever and useful.


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Probably Joel the Haywire Heart is a good read for you.

I had the heart surgery and spent the next 5 days in the hospital getting poked, prodded, bled, etc and fed truly awful food.

I was on a series of prescription meds for 3 months following the surgery and they carries on with the Warfarin for another 2 weeks after that date as my INR numbers simply refused to get to the levels they wanted them to be at, but I am finished that now.

The valve was repaired so the only ongoing med I have in my life is low dose aspirin. That is 1 more med than I had before all this.

Still get sore, and get quite surprised if a sneeze sneaks up on me at exactly how much a sneeze can hurt.

They said it will take a year to get back to normal so trying to adjust to that, it has been 2 years since I threw a leg over a bike in the great outdoors. Spending some time on a bike in the basement - which gets old fast.

The old saying - it is much easier to stay in shape than it is to get in shape.

I am essentially at ground zero at this point, clearly some muscle memory is there but the strength, flexibility, cardio, etc - all at fresh newborn baby level. It is humbling and quite frustrating to watch myself moving like a 62 year old …

Time and determination I guess.

As my father in law always said “as long as you’re on the right of the grass ….”

You will get there have faith. Sounds like you have more time on the right side of the grass, and you've got that going for you!

Best of luck and congrats on the valve job, @TMB.

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Originally Posted by TMB

I am essentially at ground zero at this point, clearly some muscle memory is there but the strength, flexibility, cardio, etc - all at fresh newborn baby level.

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Oh, but to have the flexibility of a baby.