Random NAHBS thoughts.

I have my reasons for attending the show which i will list below but i am curious about reasons others either attend or skip the show. I know Curt is a first time participant and i am excited seeing him signed up. I know what the people in my inner circle think but am curious about others.

Reason for attending the show (not in order of importance):
1) Keeping the brand in the public eye
2) Business
3) Keep the trade alive and kicking
4) Face time with my peers (by far my favorite part)

Happy New Year,
Drew

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnginCycles

I have my reasons for attending the show which i will list below but i am curious about reasons others either attend or skip the show. I know Curt is a first time participant and i am excited seeing him signed up. I know what the people in my inner circle think but am curious about others.

Reason for attending the show (not in order of importance):
1) Keeping the brand in the public eye
2) Business
3) Keep the trade alive and kicking
4) Face time with my peers (by far my favorite part)

Happy New Year,
Drew

---

i'm heavy on number 3 atmo -
the tide was raised starting nahbs 1.0 in houston and a lot of
folks have ridden it since. many didn't know, or have forgotten,
what this niche was like before nahbs and before the 1s and 0s
brought us closer together. there are a good deal of folks with
torches and anvil fixtures who have coat tailed into a nice and
what could be ever-so-brief career based on what nahbs has
done. i think the show is owed allegiance and am quite zealous
about letting folks know how i feel atmo. the detractors, the
naysayers, those who don't like cold weather - all of them
should have a big rethink before too long or otherwise face an
era in which a paradigm shift occurs between the folks with the
resources and experience and the folks looking for them. up 'til
now it's been open season in the magnanimity department over in
aisle two. get it while you can before it goes out of style atmo.

i'll be there next year. i've been to the last two. they show/people/all you guys are great. the show needs to go on. i'll be there next year. i'm going to mexico for a much needed adventure this year. see you in 10', steve.

Drew, Richie, Steve,

Thanks for your posts.

It means a lot to me that I have your support. Its too bad some dont share the same opinions as you.

It didnt really "shock" me to see Vertigo's post the other day mentioning that some builders in PDX have a beef with me/NAHBS, but it was the first time that a builder has actually come out and said it. Its like, finally, someone has come out and acknowledged that it is true.

I dont claim to be perfect as a show organizer. In fact, I know I am far from it. I think many of these folks have lost sight of the fact I am just a blue collar framebuilder, just like them. What I do have, is vision. That vision, thus far, has provided a living for many of the exhibitors of NAHBS. That makes me happy. What makes me sad is the lack of support that comes from moving the show from the west coast.

There, I said it. I know its probably a bad PR move to come out and say it, but at this point, I think it needs to be said. I wish those who dont come to NAHBS this year or next, as we continue our journey east, the same continued success. But their lack of involvement comes at a price for the rest of our industry. Whether they choose to believe it or not, their lack of involvement hurts our niche, imho.

On the flipside, it thrills me to see more of the European and Japanese builders coming to NAHBS this year. We have truly gone international, and those who havent the foresight to see what a benefit this is, will simply miss the boat. It makes sense that the foreign builders who want a share of our marketplace will be here and they will travel thousands and thousands of miles yet, on the other hand, some domestic builders wont travel a few hundred or even a thousand miles to be here. Sad.

For those who support NAHBS and our industry, Thank YOU!

Especially e-Richie. For those who don't know, I don't think I could have gotten this show as far as it is now without him being behind NAHBS.

Thanks for reading.

DW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slapshot

It didnt really "shock" me to see Vertigo's post the other day mentioning that some builders in PDX have a beef with me/NAHBS, but it was the first time that a builder has actually come out and said it. Its like, finally, someone has come out and acknowledged that it is true.
DW

---

That comment is gone, removed by the powers that be, and it would be as if I didn't write it if not for your acknowledgment. My comment wasn't meant as an attack, slight, offense or jab.

I've written it before, I'd be there if not for the fear of missing what may be the most important moment of my life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VertigoCycles

That comment is gone, removed by the powers that be, and it would be as if I didn't write it if not for your acknowledgment. My comment wasn't meant as an attack, slight, offense or jab.

---

???
there's text missing?
isn't this that post -
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...7&postcount=20

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

???
there's text missing?
isn't this that post -
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...7&postcount=20

---

Confirmed what I've always suspected...I might be nuts or blind. Maybe both. I thought there was another sentence at the end. Which is it? Crazy or visually impaired?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slapshot

What I do have, is vision. That vision, thus far, has provided a living for many of the exhibitors of NAHBS.

---

And an opportunity for you to pat yourself on the back...

Honestly Don, your show has given some good exposure to builders new and old, but each builders "living" is provided by their own hard work. It's an insult to say otherwise.

Don't lose sight of that fact that the show would not be anything without the builders, the bikes and the brands that they put so much energy into. The bikes and what the builders bring to the table are what people are coming to see.

As easily as you credit yourself, you could be crediting the exhibitors... you know...if you wanted to...

From the punter side......I know quite a few people who are flying to Indy for a three day weekend to attend the show. NAHBS is becoming a travel destinaion, a place to burn some paid time off. Obviously Indy does not have the cultural attraction of Portland, so it proves that the bikes and builders are the show, NOT the location.

"imperfection is perfection and preception is reality," to ronnie.

a lot of imperfetion and preception in this ole man - look forward to the friendship, culture and attitude -along with the simplicity.

"back home in indy,"
ronnie :)

Typically I lurk around here because there are so many big brains out there I can rarely add anything that hasn’t already been said. I thought I’d pipe up this time because I feel pretty strongly about this subject. Here are the reasons I exhibit along with my reasoning.

There are two distinct reasons I do NAHBS the first and the main reason is sales. This is a tough one for a lot of builders because the cost to attend and exhibit for a builder is significant. The direct sales impact is not. I would guess most exhibitors won’t sell a single frame at the show and of the builders that do, they will only sell a few at most. If it cost a couple thousand dollars to attend you need to sell a lot of frames to pay for it. So if you have a built in local market or a decent back log as a builder you may not see it as a good investment once you add in the cost and time. While that is a pretty obvious way to look at the show when deciding to attend there are those who take a more indirect view of the benefits and I fall in to that group.

The ways I see it is that there are X number of customers out there willing to spend the type of money that can buy a custom frame. Most don’t know of us or our product and wouldn’t know how to buy a custom frame if they did. On top of that most don’t know what a custom frame has to offer that a peg bike doesn’t. NAHBS give the custom frame community an opportunity to get in front of those customers and make our case. Suddenly we can be an option to those buyers. I don’t see it as Strong Frames competing against other custom builders. I see it as Custom builders competing against peg bikes. In order for us to be effective we need a large enough number of quality, experienced, professional builders at the show to make it of some consequence. If there aren’t, the show won’t garner the interest needed to make it effective. So when I go to the show, I promote custom frames as a whole. As go custom frames so goes Strong Frames.

The second reason I attend the show is community. I love frame building and everything about it. I would go to the show if I didn’t build frames for a living. Luckily I get to go exhibit and attend. Framebuilders I think are unique to a lot of other business in that we are very open and non-competitive with each other. That’s something I love. When we’re at the show we share what we know and how we do things and that strengthens all of us. If I skipped the show I’d miss out on a lot. I know when I return from the show I’ll be a better framebuilder than I am when I get there, guaranteed.

Wow Sacha,

It wasnt about crediting myself with anything. I said what I said because it made sense to me.

NAHBS has always been about the builder.

Besides, I thought I was pretty humble in the words before that.

DW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slapshot

Wow Sacha,

It wasnt about crediting myself with anything. I said what I said because it made sense to me.

NAHBS has always been about the builder.

Besides, I thought I was pretty humble in the words before that.

DW

---

you're both right and you're both wrong atmo.
so it evens out.
mkay?

the issue is about folks who find reasons to fault the show while
(and after...) benefiting from it's very existance. as jessup said -
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a
man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom
I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
or some shit like that atmo.

Regarding Portland, the city has a plethora of framebuilders. That's an understatement. Most are not full timers. Nothing wrong with that. Just stating a fact. When the show was in Portland is was easy and way cheaper for the majority of the Portland builders to show. When the show moved they grumbled about it. Their perogative but the show has always moved. Now that it has moved there are still some Portland builders coming. Why? My guess is they see the value AND they can pay for it. That last part is important.

Don, I wouldn't worry about not having a 100% Portland attendance rate or grumbling. Grumbling will always occur and the size of the Portland contingency was bound to reduce when the show moved. That is in no way a swipe at these builders nor Portland. I just think it's basic economics. Like Carl pointed out there's two ways to look at the investment in the show. People make choices.

I'm excited to see you all there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carl S

there are so many big brains out there I can rarely add anything that hasn’t already been said.

---

Carl, don't sell yourself short... great insight, and additive to the discussion.

I came into this space from a different world, but it was a world where trade shows were a constant. Between footwear, apparel and gear, fashion vs. functional, domestic vs. international, and channel/market related shows, I probably averaged a dozen a year around the world, and skipped a dozen more that I could have/should have attended.

What's different about NAHBS? For starters, it's first and foremost about the product and the folks that make it. Most trade shows are about the "industry", and the notion that you have to be seen within a pre-defined context of what that industry is. NAHBS is so much cooler than that because it starts from a basis of community. A community that, on the one hand, competes with its members in the marketplace, but is also remarkably open and willing to share. Business geeks call this "co-opetition".

The second thing about NAHBS that is fundamentally different is that it is less a trade show, and more of an exhibition, open to the public. The public that actually spends their money on bicycles and related gear. How could you not want to put your brand/work in front of thousands of potential customers?

As for cost, this thing is a bargain. I understand the $ relative to the budgets of lots of exhibitors, but I challenge anyone to show me any other expenditure of similar magnitude that will put you and your brand directly in front of so many potential customers. Let's say minimum out of pocket costs are $2K; that doesn't even get you a conversation in most marketing media. It's really short money for the exposure, never mind the opportunity to see and learn from the community. Rather than view it as an optional choice, I view it as a must do and would make sharper choices elsewhere in the budget.

The whole personality conflict, west coast vs. anyplace else stuff; it's just parochial and reminds me of the BS that was so pervasive in the hip hop community a few years back. This too shall pass, and those that remain turf-oriented will find themselves isolated and marginalized over time.

Finally, wrt Don, I've said it before in this forum, he has made a number of personal sacrifices to make this thing what it has become, and thus deserves any success that it yields. My words to him when I met him for the first time at NAHBS last year were, "don't sell this thing". He'll be the first to admit that he's neither the most eloquent, or tactful communicator, or an experienced show promoter, but he stepped up and rang the bell when he launched this thing with the support of a core group of builders, and we are all better for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GSmith

The whole personality conflict, west coast vs. anyplace else stuff; it's just parochial and reminds me of the BS that was so pervasive in the hip hop community a few years back. This too shall pass, and those that remain turf-oriented will find themselves isolated and marginalized over time.

---

nahbs, and the rest of us, (we) are not about location atmo. in an
e-chat about this midwest, etc. thing from last april i penned this -

the the anti-indy sentiment has gotten under my skin, and it seems
that everyone loves portland and wants to move there forever. i am
wondering what bike culture means as a draw or demographic. tell
me how you feel. i think that all the indie/singlespeeder/hipster/ goth/
vegans in the world can park their rebuilt $400 steel bikes outside and
all we have done is increase the body count rather than meet our real
client base. all my personal success at nahbs has been due to folks who
have made nahbs a weekend vacation. i hardly suspect that my table sales
were propped by locals. i/we can only speak with one person at a time, and
it makes less sense to me that we focus on this "does a host town have
a bike culture?" thing in order to 1) validate a portland, and/or 2) diss
an indy.

sorry for the thread drift and angst atmo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GSmith

As for cost, this thing is a bargain. I understand the $ relative to the budgets of lots of exhibitors, but I challenge anyone to show me any other expenditure of similar magnitude that will put you and your brand directly in front of so many potential customers. Let's say minimum out of pocket costs are $2K; that doesn't even get you a conversation in most marketing media. It's really short money for the exposure, never mind the opportunity to see and learn from the community. Rather than view it as an optional choice, I view it as a must do and would make sharper choices elsewhere in the budget.

---

amen.

A one page Ad in a Toronto paper costs about $18,000.
And it's useless...

In terms of hitting your potential customers, nahbs is pure gold.

g

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carl S

I would guess most exhibitors won’t sell a single frame at the show and of the builders that do, they will only sell a few at most.

---

never sold a frame AT the show, but i got 8 orders in the march following the last one - there's quite the web-driven media blitz {both large scale magazines/web sites and the million flickr sites} following the show.......more media exposure then you can buy with a couple grand, i figure......and heck, it's tax deductable. steve.

I know I would love to attend as a consumer but as yet I can't, I still love to surf through as many sites/forums and blogs to see photos of NAHBS exhibitors as I can. The fact that a lot of Euro Industry types are exhibiting this year means they have seen how powerful the coverage is.

If I were a framebuilder I don't see how I could afford not to attend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carl S

Typically I lurk around here because there are so many big brains out there I can rarely add anything that hasn’t already been said. I thought I’d pipe up this time because I feel pretty strongly about this subject. Here are the reasons I exhibit along with my reasoning.

There are two distinct reasons I do NAHBS the first and the main reason is sales. This is a tough one for a lot of builders because the cost to attend and exhibit for a builder is significant. The direct sales impact is not. I would guess most exhibitors won’t sell a single frame at the show and of the builders that do, they will only sell a few at most. If it cost a couple thousand dollars to attend you need to sell a lot of frames to pay for it. So if you have a built in local market or a decent back log as a builder you may not see it as a good investment once you add in the cost and time. While that is a pretty obvious way to look at the show when deciding to attend there are those who take a more indirect view of the benefits and I fall in to that group.

The ways I see it is that there are X number of customers out there willing to spend the type of money that can buy a custom frame. Most don’t know of us or our product and wouldn’t know how to buy a custom frame if they did. On top of that most don’t know what a custom frame has to offer that a peg bike doesn’t. NAHBS give the custom frame community an opportunity to get in front of those customers and make our case. Suddenly we can be an option to those buyers. I don’t see it as Strong Frames competing against other custom builders. I see it as Custom builders competing against peg bikes. In order for us to be effective we need a large enough number of quality, experienced, professional builders at the show to make it of some consequence. If there aren’t, the show won’t garner the interest needed to make it effective. So when I go to the show, I promote custom frames as a whole. As go custom frames so goes Strong Frames.

The second reason I attend the show is community. I love frame building and everything about it. I would go to the show if I didn’t build frames for a living. Luckily I get to go exhibit and attend. Framebuilders I think are unique to a lot of other business in that we are very open and non-competitive with each other. That’s something I love. When we’re at the show we share what we know and how we do things and that strengthens all of us. If I skipped the show I’d miss out on a lot. I know when I return from the show I’ll be a better framebuilder than I am when I get there, guaranteed.

---

I've said it before and I'll say it again Carl is the smartest man in framebuilding imho!

Thanks rphetteplace, now if you could help me convince my wife of that I might start to get some freedom from the welding corner.

I have shown at the last 3 shows and attended the 1st. I decided to attend again this year for a number of reasons; First of all, this show is an advertising home run. With all the press, public face-to-face time and the viral advertising through flicker pages, etc. I could never afford advertising like that.
Secondly, and probably should be number one on my list, the people! The framebuilding community brought me in as one of their own when I was a newbie in 2004. The relationships I have fostered over the years are without equal. I just love sitting down and talking with the guys I only see once a year.

In these economic times- the expense to go to a show sometimes seems unjustified. But, I am looking at the bigger picture. The midwest will be a new market for me. I look forward to the public reaction to my work. I am keeping my name out there and that will be returned in spades over the years.

See you all in Indy.

Chuck

I think my perspective is a little different. Like a lot of the builders at the show, my backlog is significant, and to do the show is a greater time investment than I really desire to make and can afford to do. Right now I am 3 months behind on orders I promised an 8 month turn-around. The time it takes to get ready to do the show and to have a decent product to bring is too much for me. I did Portland NAHBS as I really wanted to meet a lot of the builders, and I really wanted to experience Portland. I brought bikes, but they weren't exactly the bikes I wanted to bring, as I couldn't put the necessary time in. I do not know how one-person shops manage a good show year after year, but it is impressive that they do so and still make a freakin living. I got 2 orders at the show, and none I know of as a result of the show. I do ask all potential customers how they found me, and no one has mentioned the show, except the two who placed orders there.

I have a very specific market, consciously created. They don't see bikes the way most of you all do. So my marketing approach is vastly different. All the little media exposure is cool, but honestly did zero for me. Posting on a women's forum regularly does a hell of a lot more, I have found.

The show for me would be about having an experience more than padding my bottom line. I am not identified with the profession enough to join those who are doing this to support something called "framebuilding." I feel frame building is outside of the box, and after a few years of hanging out on framebuilding friendly forums, I realize I am pretty far outside the box of framebuilding. Which means I am probably insane.

Anyway, I think Don has done a lot of good work, and it is cool to see he knows he is human and not perfect. I don't like how slick NAHBS is becoming, but I guess that is part of the deal when things like this evolve. If I exhibit at a future show it will because it is somewhere I like to go during a time of year I like to go, and because I want to see your smiling faces. I don't think it is really a profitable enterprise for me.

I am driving 1000 miles to attend. :thumbs_up:

I've been drooling for years now at all the great pictures I've
seen of the event. Can't wait to attend. :cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ahneida Ride Hide

I am driving 1000 miles to attend. :thumbs_up:

I've been drooling for years now at all the great pictures I've
seen of the event. Can't wait to attend. :cheers:

---

we'll see ya there ray -
and that's a wrap atmo.