FOO can save Formula one!

While fighting a strong desire to wander from F1 and on over to the twenty four hour ras'lin (wrestling) channel
I decided on what can save Formula One... F.O.O.

"Formula One Outlaw".

*Dump Bernie... Max too.

*Go back to 3 L non-turbo engines.

*Limit costs (engine transmission chassis) to 250,000 pound sterling per car.

*Encourage privateers.

*Governing body supplies fuel

*Go back to two meter stance.

*Keep all current safety regulations.

*Go back to the big tires of the '70's.

Let the rest be wild & free.

Noise? Not a problem!

Driver controlled wings? Just fine!

Steel rotors and ceramic pads? Cheaper than the
carbon disks that each cost more than a street car!

1000 bhp? All the more fun!

We've gone from Giles & Rene' battling it out at the French GP in
'79 to Hamilton whining about anything & everything not being fair.

Are you listening, Bernie?

I wonder if Hulk Hogan will come out of retirement....

Can Am racing died because they had an attitude that more speed was all they needed. Too many dead drivers stopped that. F1 should make sensible rules to promote safety and keep the costs down. Watching is fun, but knowing how much they spend on the cars does put some people off.

The only thing F1 needs is a competitive championship until deep into the season.
How you get there is anybody's guess, but when one team dominates, people lose interest.
With the technological reshuffling that keeps going on each season, it's a crap shoot what will happen.

Honda will be back next year, and maybe others will figure this turbo thing out.
A good rivalry will get the fans watching.

-g

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Originally Posted by Maxspeedwell

W

*Limit costs (engine transmission chassis) to 250,000 pound sterling per car.

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HA HA remember when they tried to cap it before ,well you would be amazed how many companies existed and now dont but supplied work and parts and design and testing for next to no money at all....ill let you figure out the rest for yourself

What F1 needs is for Ferrari to be relevant again.

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Originally Posted by Mike Mcdermid

HA HA remember when they tried to cap it before ,well you would be amazed how many companies existed and now dont but supplied work and parts and design and testing for next to no money at all....ill let you figure out the rest for yourself

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A friend of mine used to be a GM "Skunk Works" machinist.
Well...lets just say the more restrictions, the more inventive the cheats.

I would simplify the rules. Something like this.

-Must use tires of the same dimensions as the average japanese kei cars (but should be homologated to be able to withstand the abuse of a F1 car)
-No pit stops except for repairs.
-race should be run with the same amount of fuel a compact/small-family/C segment car would need to do the same at full speed.
-mandatory crash tests

And that's about it. Let the engineer have some creativity.

Prost at Monza 91 those cars where scary
Alain Prost Monza - YouTube

I'd watch this......

f1 shouldn't be capped or limited it should be the absolute technical pinnacle of motorsport, which it isn't its watered down so everyone can play

I've said it a lot a le mans car is a race car an f1 car is an advertising board

You guys still care or worry about F1? It's all about the sports cars. You want 1,000 hp? LMP1 is for you.

This season has had the best racing in five years. Mercedes has been dominant, but have had reliability issues and others are catching up. And as good as the Merc has been, the races have hardly been parades. As far as Ferrari goes, Alonso is still the best driver in F1 and he alone is keeping them relevant (did you see his drive last Sunday?). F1 is the NFL of motorsports: limited numbers, easy schedule to follow, every race on a Sunday. Also, the qualifying format is super fun and just as exciting as the race.

Interesting stat regarding this season - Hamilton has overtaken fifty cars for position in the last four Grands Prix!
I've missed this entire season (no cable here), but my homies across the pond consider themselves entertained, despite the disappointing engine noise.

worst sounding engines ever. I agree

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Originally Posted by Coppercook62

worst sounding engines ever. I agree

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They'll fix it. Indy cars manage to sound awesome with low revving, turbo charged v6's, so it can be done. They've thought about trying to push through a fix this year, but engine noise is pretty low on the worry list for most teams. They'll sound better next year.

Can you post a link to a video with the engine noise you're talking about?

I was surprised to almost reach the bottom of the original post without a dig at Hamilton... Ah well.

For me, whining and egotism aside, Hamilton saved my interest in F1. He's a throwback bare knuckle racer, the only one left on the grid. As for his quirks, I think at the sharp end of every sport, art, craft and profession; "difficult" personalities are the norm rather than exception.

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Originally Posted by thomas

Can you post a link to a video with the engine noise you're talking about?

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Here's a good 2013/2014 comparison.

http://youtu.be/jS4Dh_EAfJI

Sound is irrelevant for most people who watch it on TV. And if one of you ever attended an F1 race, I remember the sound of late 90's v10 was nice and impressive but really painful when standing a few meters from the track and just annoying when watching on television. The biggest issue is they sound all more or less the same. It was much more entertaining when turbo v4 and v6 were battling against cosworth v8 and the ferrari, matra and alfa-romeo v12.

If you want to hear great racing noise, go to hill climbs, endurances races or classic events. Lots of different engine types and sounds.

The Matra is the best sounding engine ever.


RPM limited (say 18K) naturally aspirated V12 engines,big ass fat sticky slicks,wide track chassis,minimum weight limits and wing area limits. And keep the "pump gas" rule. That would bring about some serious racing as well as creative solutions within the rules. A high mechanical grip with limited aero grip will keep the car's speed reasonable while allowing some serious corner speeds.

Screw this "green" label they're trying to cover it with. Motorsports will never be green regardless of rules. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by XR2

The Matra is the best sounding engine ever.



Screw this "green" label they're trying to cover it with. Motorsports will never be green regardless of rules. It is what it is.

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This. It is racing. it is not green. I love green stuff, but I also love cars and racing.
After thinking about it. It may make sense to have F1 supply every team with the same amount of fuel at every race and cut them loose. Now, just go race. If you run out of fuel? Well, that's too bad. See you next race.

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Originally Posted by bikinchris

This. It is racing. it is not green. I love green stuff, but I also love cars and racing.
After thinking about it. It may make sense to have F1 supply every team with the same amount of fuel at every race and cut them loose. Now, just go race. If you run out of fuel? Well, that's too bad. See you next race.

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They do limit the fuel they can use at each race. I agree, racing is about as non-green as it gets, but I think the idea behind the hybrid and energy recovery stuff is the pushing of technology for the trickle-down effect.

When f1 cars have electric motors driving every wheel they will be faster than they've ever been and debatebly green. I guess you could use a phone app to make them sound like v12s.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

When f1 cars have electric motors driving every wheel they will be faster than they've ever been and debatebly green. I guess you could use a phone app to make them sound like v12s.

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A high-performance electric car may lack the shriek of a V12 but still sounds pretty friggin cool. It's really neat to hear the tires more, especially from inside the car.

F1 can be green by developing tech used to increase efficiency of regular cars. Electric is certainly an example. Unfortunately the industry has stubbornly resisted weight reduction so far.

Ironically, the fuel use of the cars is insignificant when compared to the fuel use of the fans. I wonder how the average MPG of F1 fans compares to NASCAR fans.

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Originally Posted by thollandpe

Unfortunately the industry has stubbornly resisted weight reduction so far.

Ironically, the fuel use of the cars is insignificant when compared to the fuel use of the fans. I wonder how the average MPG of F1 fans compares to NASCAR fans.

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Hybrid tech at this level just coolifies it for the proletariat, making it an easier sell. Who doesn't think a Porsche Spyder is awesome? Light weight means less survivability, to point out the obvious, and may hurt sales more than efficiency offsets. There's a reason the NHTSA never crashes vehicles outside of their segments against each other - no one would ever by a subcompact again.

That said meeting CAFE standards in the next segment of years means either more tech and/or less weight; depending on mfgs' ability to meet the former, the latter will need to be addressed. Simply put if part of those standards included a weight component you'd see the potential of massive efficiency increases, not just the nominal increases currently mandated.

Plus they'd be a helluva lot more fun to drive.

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Originally Posted by jitahs

Light weight means less survivability, to point out the obvious, and may hurt sales more than efficiency offsets.

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A) Is this a weight debate with Jitahs?

B) I'd say strength matters way more than weight, and we bike nuts learned a long time ago that you can make stuff stronger and lighter. Yes I'd hate to go one-on-one with a 300-lb lineman, but I'd probably pick him over Jackie Chan.

+1 Despite the lead of Mercedes the races have been incredible to watch. I just wish Ferrari could give Alonso more to work with.

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Originally Posted by thollandpe

A) Is this a weight debate with Jitahs?

B) I'd say strength matters way more than weight, and we bike nuts learned a long time ago that you can make stuff stronger and lighter. Yes I'd hate to go one-on-one with a 300-lb lineman, but I'd probably pick him over Jackie Chan.

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A) I am currently happily fat.

B) High strength steels are being incorporated into modern vehicles to reinforce the passenger compartment, allowing for non-structural components like boots and bonnets to utilize aluminum. Mazda, iirc, was the first to do this and now other manufacturers are doing it.

But in reality everyone wants to drive the four wheel equivalent of Lawrence Taylor, the human turbo roll cage.

Ok... maybe I'm just hopelessly lost in 1978....

As for the Prost - Monza vid...

Driving on the edge all the while remembering that a slight error could cost
position, the race, or your life. That guy was good, and very consistent.
I was never a Prost, but I did identify with his driving style. Very similar to
mine (way back then). If the styles were so similar then why was he world
champion with more wins that any other driver (until Schumacher), and I was
soooo slow.. other than:

*I was easily distracted, (shiny objects)

and

*I had the rapid twitch reflexes of a sloth....

In 1978 I wonder what year they were hopelessly lost in?

no going back

but I'd like to see action this good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzyNJWXwBlI

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Originally Posted by Maxspeedwell

*I had the rapid twitch reflexes of a sloth....

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This is more about vision than reflex.

--- as long as bernie ecclestone breathes oxy & is ceo of/for f1 management.. will always remain bernie e's way..

ronnie

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Originally Posted by DOOFUS

but I'd like to see action this good

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Have you not been watching this years racing?!? Lots of fantastic racing both between the two Mercs and the super competitive mid-field scraps.

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Originally Posted by Tristan

Have you not been watching this years racing?!? Lots of fantastic racing both between the two Mercs and the super competitive mid-field scraps.

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I've enjoyed this year, too. The V8's sounded great, but had been in use for so long, they were effectively spec engines. Same performance, same reliability regardless of manufacturer. And the drivers had perfected how to drive them. The turbos don't sound great, but it's been fun watching the guys have to control the super fast onset of torque in the new engines.

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Originally Posted by Craven Moorehead

I've enjoyed this year, too. The V8's sounded great, but had been in use for so long, they were effectively spec engines. Same performance, same reliability regardless of manufacturer. And the drivers had perfected how to drive them. The turbos don't sound great, but it's been fun watching the guys have to control the super fast onset of torque in the new engines.

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I haven't heard the new engines in real-life but would love to. After the first few races either my ears became accustomed or the tv sound changed as they sound better to me now than in Melbourne. Plus, I like being able to hear the tyre squeal of a locked brake :-)

Keep the safety and bring back these days and
sounds and I'll watch F1 again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9yhbiPC65U

I loved to see Donahue in that Big monster McLaren
but really... those dinosaurs just ate each other into
extinction. The power, speed, lack of safety... CanAm
collapsed under its own weight.

I want to walk around the pits, watch the mechanics
lift the front tub and suspension up onto the pit wall
for some quick repairs while a small crowd of onlookers
stand by and occasionally hand the crew a wrench.

Would F1 today be any worse if it were radio controlled?
Full scale F1 cars with the drivers in the team bus....

Ok... I'm digressing. But I can't wonder if that could be
the soon future of F1.

-Max

Marussia MR2 formula 1 race car, chassis No MR2-02 in Jules Bianchi livery with dummy engine and gearbox, non functioning hydraulics & electrics, non functioning steering wheel and Pirelli show tyres, (Reception)

The entire team is under the hammer tomorrow ,rumours were HAAS were going to have a go

Just saw a video of Monaco 1965. It's been fifty years (THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! I'M ONLY TWENTY FIVE YEARS OLD!). I remember
that race on Wide World of Sports. When Hill took the escape road I jumped-up, then collapsed back down into the chair. WHAT
JUST HAPPENED??? I was on the edge of the chair for the entire race. Safety wasn't even a concern but by standers three feet
from passing cars, actually getting out of a car, pushing it back to the track, restarting, and then a come-back?? What a race!

Now it's all so boring. Graham was a pure English gentleman. Now look at what we have. Spoiled brats and one British driver even
taking his dogs to the race. What kind of low-brow mouth-breather takes dogs to an F1 event, let alone Monaco?? It was so much
better back then.

It's been fifty years and a few weeks and I just discovered that the escape road wasn't at Rascasse.

The girls were hot in the 70's, the drivers were personable (ok... maybe not Hunt, or Innes), in the 60's....
Now, everything is just business. Back then the cars were more akin to hot rods. Now they are a mix
between karts, and slot cars.

Boring.

The only way to bring back the good 'ol days it to watch them on YouTube.

It just hit me... I've become my dad.

Ugh... -Max

F1 is certainly going through a crisis at the moment and on-track action is rare. I get more of a kick out of watching the practise sessions than the races these days...to me what's amazing about F1 is the teams, the infrastructure, and the alignment of goals. F1 has never been as much of a team sport as it is now.

The mitigation of error points, the smoothness of how the garage operates, the calmness of the mechanics and engineers while under massive pressure - these are the things I find truly remarkable about modern F1.