Keeping sharps sharp - a foray into knife-sharpening

As per TT's infinite wisdom: voila, a thread about knife sharpening.

What do you all use? How often? Hits and misses along the way?

Personally, my household keeps the knife game simple: 1 Shun Usuba, 1 Shun Duba, a New West Knifeworks Santoku and an Opinel paring knife. Minor redundancy but it's knife if you've got two people working.

For sharpening, we exclusively use Japanese waterstones. We have two, one of which is double-sided. The first is an ara-to (estimated around 750 grit), while the second is a double-sided naka-to (!4000 grit) and shiage-to (~10000 grit). Every 3 months all of the knives get the full treatment. It takes about 15 minutes per knife, so I tend to throw on a good podcast or at least make sure someone is around for entertaining company, as it's quite repetitive work..

In the past I've owned synthetic stones and an electric sharpener, and neither got the job done as well as waterstones. They're simple to use, hard to f* up and last ages. We've had ours for 3 years now (so, about 12 rounds of 4-5 knives...) and they're not even 10% worn.

For in between the proper sharpening sessions, we keep a honing steel around that's used probably once a week per knife.

Our knives are old school and reudndant. Mostly high carbon.
Currently, I'm using a large two sided DMT diamond plate for shaping and a medium and soft Arkansas stone for finishing. I'm never 100% happy and have been leaning two faster cutting stones.
Same deal for pocket knives except I do like how fast the DMT plate fixes pocket knives that are abused.

Just (yesterday) received the Misen chef's knife and sharpening stone I Kickstartered some time ago. I've got a honing steel that sees use regularly and hopefully I'll be using the knife enough to warrant honing (haha) my skills on the stone

Also using some very fine diamond plates for heavy work. Best discovery a number of years ago is a leather stropping belt on the low-speed belt sander. A touch of compound on the belt and it will put a mirror finished edge on anything in a minute or two.

It is possible to make the edge so smooth that it isn't durable, but if it is good hard steel this is a revelation.

1" X 3" Leather Belt | Klingspor's Woodworking Shop

My wife just unboxed a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor XV as we set up the new kitchen.

She seemed pretty thrilled with the first sharpenings. No podcasts necessary.

Attachment 97515

I use the back of a tea mug for my SAK's :embarrest:

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Originally Posted by davids

My wife just unboxed a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor XV as we set up the new kitchen.

She seemed pretty thrilled with the first sharpenings. No podcasts necessary.

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I've got something similar (tho much less expensive) coming in the mail this week, we went with this one: Amazon.com: Presto 881 Professional Electric Knife Sharpener: Kitchen & Dining

We've got some Pamper Chef knives we got as a wedding gift 7yrs ago, they're all in bad need of sharpening, most have chipped edges on the blades. They've never been sharpened, so I'm looking forward to (hopefully) getting a good edge back on them.

Been buying stones from Jon at Japaneseknifeimports for years. He's extremely knowledgeable and is happy to give advices based on what you will be sharpening, your experience, how in depth you want to go etc. highly recommended giving him a call.
They also have a great YouTube channel with ton of sharpening videos
DMT diamond plate for pocket knives

No idea what brand knives I use but I use Lansky kits on all my knives ( house, work and letter openers ;) )

Professional Knife Sharpening System, Sharpening Kit | Lansky

I have been happily using Victorinox knives for years. Not fancy but decent quality. I used a large two sided whetstone to sharpen them for years but was staying at a vacation rental one time which had frightful knives so i got an Accusharp at a local shop. It did so well on them that it came home with us and has done a fine job for me ever since.

Uh oh. I suppose a disclaimer that you don't *need* all this stuff and that a reasonably sharp knife is often good enough.

Japanese waterstones will give a superior result but do take more patience. I have the 220 pink monster, and a blue 800 for fixing profiles and removing chips (when I sharpen sets for family or friends). But if your knives are in good condition you only need two stones, a medium and a finishing stone. I love my aoto 2000 which is a very muddy stone that seems to polish more as you build more mud while sharpening. Will totally remove scratches from the 800 stone if needed. I mop some of the mud up with a clean rag and use it for spot polishing and rust spot removal. My finishing stone is the kitayama 8000, which honestly feels finer and does a great job polishing large surfaces of my single bevel knives.

I then have a leather strop prepped with green chromium powder to finish the edge. I also use it between sharpenings. I would recommend against any sort of steel or even ceramic rod between sharpenings. The strop will do a better job with less damage to the geometry of the edge.

But if I need more... like for my razor, I have a real nakayama tomae that is used for honing (and sometimes my yanagi) which will then go to a strop prepped with white chromium powder. My razor strop is a kanyamara 80000.

One of my favorite things about sharpening is how the knives change over time and truly become my own. The large bevels on Japanese double beveled knives are ground on the wheel, making them slightly hollow. They are then sand plasted for looks. As you sharpen, you have to move the shinogi line to maintain the geometry and start to flatten this bevel. A mirror finish creeps in from the kireha and the shinogi and the look of the knife slowly changes, a sign of proper use and proper care. I should see if I can get a picture.

Eventually (many years from now) the whole surface from the shinogi to the hagane line will be mirror finished. But our time together is still young.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...59.56.jpg?dl=0

I use a leather belt on my belt sander. Works really well.

I've tried a number of options: oilstone, sandpaper scarysharp, waterstone. But a few years back, bought a Lansky system and it's the winner for me. Easy, quick. Perfect for shorter knives, though longer are a bit of a compromise.

Tormek T-7 to ruin my edges quickly, diamond-coated steel when I have more time to ruin them, and 3000/8000 water stones if I have all day. And yet I manage to slice myself quite handily.

stones i have are
220
1000/3000
6000
12000

i usually use the 1000/3000 stone then 6000 then strop with an old belt
if the edge is chipped (put yr glasses on and look at the light reflect off the edge) heavily because i got lazy i might go down to the 220 stone...

the king 6000 stone doesn't build much mud so i use my flattening stone on that one to get it going...

the 12000 stone only has been used for my straight razor, kitchen knives don't need that thing.
honestly i think most people would be fine with 1000/3000 stone and a smooth belt...

after years of using a Chefs Choice, I finally picked up an Edge Pro Apex. I always had an issue getting the tips sharp with the CC, and this system solves that issue. I've re-profiled a couple of my old blades that I had almost given up on to a razors edge. Highly recommended. I have stones from a 220 grit up to 3,000 and can put a mirror polish on a blade that make the edge seem to disappear :>).

For those of us with no access to a belt sander, and limited funds to shell out on a big complete system.... Anyone got a favourite method/recommendations for basic equipment? We've got 2 decent chef's knives (my Wusthof, and my wife's Shun), and a smattering of smaller paring blades (and a few Benchmade camping blades), so a pretty small fleet, but I should really get on a better maintenance routine for them...

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Originally Posted by jjmstang

No idea what brand knives I use but I use Lansky kits on all my knives ( house, work and letter openers ;) )

Professional Knife Sharpening System, Sharpening Kit | Lansky

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Second the Lansky. Use it on everything, fillet, pocket and kitchen knives. I'm terrible about using it regularly. I have a steel that I hit the kitchen knives with before using. Before hunting season I normally sit down and do every knife in the house.

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Originally Posted by mwynne

Anyone got a favourite method/recommendations for basic equipment?

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How much are you willing to work at it?

First off, I'm strongly of the opinion that steel on stone of some kind is the only acceptable way to care for a blade. The systems, like the apex pro and lansky, use stones but have additional hardware to keep a set angle. These are terrific if you're sharpening many different kinds of blades and want to have great results the first time. There are other blade guides out there, but they are often less adjustable. Still, if all you want is something to hold a chefs knife at a set angle the clip-on guides are like 10 bucks and work great (search knife sharpening guide... They're all about the same).

If you want to do it by hand (or with a clip guide), which is both honorable and will give you flexibility down the road, then you need a medium stone and a fine stone. I personally don't like combo stones (different grits on different sides), but many do and they work fine. For the medium, the king 1000 is popular and around 25-30 bucks. The bester is 20 bucks more but would be my choice for someone starting out. For a combo, the imanishi 1000/6000 is great. For a fine stone I really love my kitayama 8000, but the king 6000 is good and my local shop swears by the takenoko 8000. You are unlikely to ever wear through a finishing stone. These are all Japanese synthetic waterstones, which is my preference. Equally good are the shapton ceramics, the DMT diamond stones (but damn be careful with these, they remove material fast) and traditional whetstones, although natural whetstones are becoming difficult to find in large sizes.

Really, you only *need* the medium stone. Coarse stones are only for repair or reprofiling. The fine stone is just to remove scratches from the medium stone and can be used to touch up the edge between full sharpenings. As I mentioned above, a leather strop is massively better for blades than any steel/round hone for knocking off the burr and for touching up the edge. Be forewarned that shun stainless knives are the hardest knives I've ever encountered and take two to three times as long to sharpen as any other blade I've ever handled.

Used our electric sharpener this weekend. While I'm sure it's not as good as many of the other methods in this thread, it is effective and inexpensive and good enough for me.

After on top, before on bottom. Not high quality knifes, obviously.

http://i.imgur.com/1J0KSzc.jpg

Chefsknivestogo has a nice starter set with a 1k/6k grit combo stone. They even give you a pretty nice "practice" knife to use. their site has some good videos on how to sharpen knives, too.

Complete 6pc Sharpening Starter Set

Reviving this thread, what would people recommend for sharpening SAK's or Leatherman's?
I can use an Edge Pro system, but does not have the stones.
Don't want to spend a fortune, would two stones do the job? What grade?

Thanks!

How important is the cutting board in the equation ? I bought a chefs choice manual sharpener but maybe 4 months later I needed to re sharpen... I feel like that's too soon . Could the plastic board I've got just be ruining things ? Is endgrain all it's cracked up to be ?

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Originally Posted by skouri1

How important is the cutting board in the equation ? I bought a chefs choice manual sharpener but maybe 4 months later I needed to re sharpen... I feel like that's too soon . Could the plastic board I've got just be ruining things ? Is endgrain all it's cracked up to be ?

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The board makes some difference and yes, endgrain is pretty tops, but honestly 4 months is not that short of a time for knives to need a resharpening depending on the frequency and what you're cutting. So... what are you cutting and how often? Personally, as I said that the beginning of this thread, I resharpen every 3 months. Yesterday was pretty average and one knife went through: 2 apples, 1 onion, 1 leek, 4 cloves of garlic, 1 sweet potato, 2 zucchini and a bunch of asparagus. That every day for 3 months is plenty to necessitate a sharpening.

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Originally Posted by mwynne

For those of us with no access to a belt sander, and limited funds to shell out on a big complete system.... Anyone got a favourite method/recommendations for basic equipment?

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Originally Posted by Gattonero

Reviving this thread, what would people recommend for sharpening SAK's or Leatherman's?

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For knives that aren't too precious and when nobody is watching, I'm "guilty" of using the Work Sharp: Work Sharp Original Knife and Tool Sharpener – WSKTS

Use it without the guide, and you basically have a mini belt sander. Just get a feel for it with a junker the first time since you can take off a lot of metal in a hurry.

It's not as good as a stone and strop in the right hands, but it's quick and pretty easy. After all, the best sharpener is the one you actually use.

We have this.

It does a damn fine job after a few minute's study on how to use it.

My knives were useless. It got to the point where I wanted to just throw them away and start over, but I didnt know how to safely dispose of them. As a compromise, I picked up a two sided diamond plate - 300/1200 I think. May well be the best $60 I've ever spent. Having knifes that can cut things again is wonderful.

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Originally Posted by davids

We have this.

It does a damn fine job after a few minute's study on how to use it.

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+1 - followed davids lead and ordered this off of Amazon - knives were sharpened - first time in 17 yrs - was blown away at how easy it is to chop an onion and have been freaking out watching the kids use something sharper than a paper plate

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Originally Posted by BShow

My knives were useless. It got to the point where I wanted to just throw them away and start over, but I didnt know how to safely dispose of them. As a compromise, I picked up a two sided diamond plate - 300/1200 I think. May well be the best $60 I've ever spent. Having knifes that can cut things again is wonderful.

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+1 DMT plates are great.

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Originally Posted by rydesteel

after years of using a Chefs Choice, I finally picked up an Edge Pro Apex. I always had an issue getting the tips sharp with the CC, and this system solves that issue. I've re-profiled a couple of my old blades that I had almost given up on to a razors edge. Highly recommended. I have stones from a 220 grit up to 3,000 and can put a mirror polish on a blade that make the edge seem to disappear :>).

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+1 on the Edge Pro Apex. Works great. Easy to use.

I take my knifes to be sharpened at the local chef supply store. its $2 per blade and they are on the hook if they mess up my expensive knife.

some stones and a few youtube videos watching what to do and even your junk knives can cut like expensive ones. they just might not hold an edge very long.

1000/4000 norton stone is probably all most people would need
but a 220 stone is cheap and it makes fixing a dull and chipped edge easy and quick
but also, a mirror finish on the edge makes a knife feel so much nicer. i use a king 6000 to polish it up, then i just take my belt off and lay it smooth side up on the table and strop for a minute.

also, a blade that is completely mirror polished feels really smooth...

how difficult would it be to ruin the profile of the edge when polishing? if I were to do that after having it sharpened and ruined the edge trying I wouldn't hear the end of it.

a 1000 stone doesn't take much off, it takes quite a few strokes to get chips out of the edge with a 1000 stone.
for the most part, even with a 220 stone, you're not going to do drastic reshaping of the belly profile of the knife. i had a cheap santoku with a weird bump right in the middle of the belly of the knife, it took quite a while on the 220 stone to get that smoothed out.

also maybe 15-25 strokes a side on a 220 and all the chips in a moderately abused edge are gone. the worst damage you will do with stones as a newb will be accidentally scuffing the sides of the knife a bit, maybe you will put some weird angles on your edge as well but you can fine tune/adjust that as you get better at it.
i used to use my right hand to hold the angle on the stones on one side of the knife, left for the other side. then i saw a video of bob kramer showing how he uses stones and i started doing it like him, right hand for both sides of the blade, one side of the knife pushing away, the other side of the knife i'm pulling towards me. seems more consistent...

I ordered an over-fancy Nakiri Thursday night, because I have even less sense than skill. Ahem. So to address that imbalance, I'm going to see if I can learn something from the maker: Carter Cutlery Blade Sharpening Tutorial Set. I'll report back after I get sewn back together.

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Originally Posted by ericpmoss

I ordered an over-fancy Nakiri Thursday night, because I have even less sense than skill. Ahem. So to address that imbalance, I'm going to see if I can learn something from the maker: Carter Cutlery Blade Sharpening Tutorial Set. I'll report back after I get sewn back together.

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Good for you. I really enjoy keeping a working edge on my pocket knives, kitchen knives. You'll have fun.

My dad used the Spyderco sharpener for years. I finally broke down and got one for myself. Two knives, nothing fancy, Henkels classics, and now I can shave with them. Check out the Spyderco system if you're into simple and effective.

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Originally Posted by Too Tall

Good for you. I really enjoy keeping a working edge on my pocket knives, kitchen knives. You'll have fun.

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Things I've learned -- knives as sharp as these need a lot of respect; super clean cuts bleed as much as jagged cuts; carbon steel turns onions black (did not know that one). This last point was the excuse I needed to buy one of his funayukis in stainless-clad White #1 steel. Half the price, 99.9% as sharp, or maybe 100.1%, and thinner and pointier. Gawd I love toys. Next up, maybe the new experimental Potts road-ish bike.

stones (I dig my dmt's) are great, especially after you get the hang of it, but nothing is more important in my mind than having a good sharpening steel (not diamond in this case, you don't want to remove material) and knowing how to use it properly (and it ain't the free swingin' in the air like a french chef sh*t unless you know exactly what you're doing). makes a huge difference in keeping knives sharp on a daily basis and not having to hit the more aggressive sharpening systems nearly as often

edit before the time-out: a steel is for honing, not sharpening