If you want to dump Trump....

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Scott Baio & Stephen Baldwin. You’re busting out the heavy hitters now! So that’s you’re list and the other list is every actor except them. Yeah ok. Makes sense.

My original response was to a serious post. Now it’s getting into the weeds quickly.

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Nope, just playing your lovely game of deflection and straw men. It's much easier to argue about celeb endorsements than it is to talk about the real problems, right? Like requalifying what counts as a lie, or brushing off his tacit endorsement of Russian interference with "Oh please tell me you're not talking about THAT nonsense again" kind of rhetoric.

If you'd rather talk about celebrities and other pedantic clarifications, at least use proper forms of your/you're while you're doing it.

I disagree completely. We have no idea of the evidence being used to guide decision making. There are no press briefings to convey the thinking of this administration. Instead we get train of thought blathering that seem to shift depending on the winds. Look at the ponderous responses to mass shootings or the justifications given for the Iran assassination. We don’t get transparency, we get obfuscation and a “show”.
It’s not that the press doesn’t “get to filter” the narrative, it’s that the administration can’t even decide what its narrative is. Access? Mar a Lago folks may get it, but we sure as hell don’t.

Response to a non-scripted question: "China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.”

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Originally Posted by Octave

If you'd rather talk about celebrities and other pedantic clarifications, at least use proper forms of your/you're while you're doing it.

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Dude, you are the one that posted the list of celebrities? WTF are you talking about?


You should follow the actual thread better maybe:

-- This is the post that initiated the direction of this part of the conversation:

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Originally Posted by HorsCat

The value of free publicity the MSM granted Trump in the 2016 campaign can neither be quantified nor, probably, overstated. Suffice it to say that it was significant...

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-- to which my response was:

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Can the value of the publicity from every millionaire Hollywood actor & producer supporting trump’s opposition be quantified or overstated?

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This was hopefully about to be a meaningful discussion campaign finance and publicity....

From there you go directly to list folks like Chachi from Happy Days, then attempt to imply that I am more interested talking about celebrities.

That's simply dishonest. And the one thing that I do know for a fact is these threads run much better when folks are honest.

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Originally Posted by mjbabcock

I disagree completely. We have no idea of the evidence being used to guide decision making. There are no press briefings to convey the thinking of this administration. Instead we get train of thought blathering that seem to shift depending on the winds. Look at the ponderous responses to mass shootings or the justifications given for the Iran assassination. We don’t get transparency, we get obfuscation and a “show”.
It’s not that the press doesn’t “get to filter” the narrative, it’s that the administration can’t even decide what its narrative is. Access? Mar a Lago folks may get it, but we sure as hell don’t.

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I miss the press conferences too. You may not agree, but it seemed like they turned into an 'audition' for TV journalists to get a viral moment captured to further their career.

But every weekend on Face the Nation, Meet the Press, etc. you can get the same white house perspective with more in depth challenges from the media.

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Originally Posted by Romain Mousset

Looking all that from Europe

Please who ever you elect
Stop doing your warmongers shenanigans in Middle East , Asia ( pakistan etc )
For oils, gas, for a greater Israël, for imperialism , don't care what yours reasons ( true or pretended ) are

They are the ones who suffer
We are the ones receiving these populations fleeing because america has to bring them " freedom , democracy , human rights '' whatever
Let them be and take care of your country , it is much needed.

Try to put yourself in the position of the people living in these countries.
They didn't asked for shit. And you don't have the moral legitimacy to perturb their ecosystems.

You've been at wars for so long
For what
How many americans have to die before you say enough

And fuck off

Best regards

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I could not agree with you more. This is about power in support of global resource hegemony and money, and US hands are drenched in blood. As a country we get incensed over losing a relatively small number of people while refusing to acknowledge the vastly larger number of people who's deaths, ruined families, lives and circumstances our actions have caused. It needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

meaningful discussion

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You have a funny way of showing your desire for meaningful discussion.

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Originally Posted by HorsCat

You have a funny way of showing your desire for meaningful discussion.

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I'd wager that the best meaningful discussions have two sides with two distinct points of view.

It wasn't that long ago when 'political discussion' always meant opposing points of view. It seems to me that today's 'meaningful political discussions' are a bunch of guys discussing the level to which they agree with each other. Peppered with outrage for those that hold different opinions.

Yawn. The White House response:
The articles are “a brazen and unlawful attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election"

Yes, hurry. This means Clinton will be installed as President.

But Epstein's lawyers are on it. Hey, I kept my underwear on.

Im really glad there is actually some governing going on with Trump, even if the only thing he can focus on is money. i mean its his job to sort of do this stuff, so im not gonna give him too much credit for getting deals done that were supposed to get done. thats what presidents do, hopefully. but he did them, and they might make money better, whatever good that does us as humans. good for him for doing the new nafta and the china deal that may or may not be meaningful.

and Kudos to the democrats for working so hard on the new nafta replacement, they managed to get a bipartisan deal done with some concessions, the way its supposed to be. good on the democrats for not just blocking something (you watching mc connell?) that helps us all in the form of the new Nafta.

as far as honesty goes, one side repeats lies over and over, and over, and blatant lies constantly disproved. One side has no need for such tactics. we all know which side is which, if we are being honest with ourselves. this is not a matter of disagreement, its a matter of honestly considering the facts, not your opinion of the facts. when a person presents a coherent argument for their position, they are listened to and respected, especially when the view is opposing. that someone can convince me toeven consider changing my mind is awesome, i look for it daily... when one provides straw men, false equivalencies, and whataboutisms, they are met with the same skeptical approach as anyone else who argues in that way. if you repeat a known lie, you are misinformed at best, but most likely a liar as well.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

The people have never had more access to a president ever. Period. That’s a reality that few would disagree with.

His near every thought is tweeted. He takes non scripted questions every time he is public. Your anger stems from the fact that the press doesn’t get to filter it down to its own narrative before it’s released to the public.

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Things we've learned from this President given unprecedented level of "access":

-- Windmills cause cancer.
-- You have to flush a toilet 10-15 times.
-- You need an ID to buy milk.
-- There were good people on both sides of the Charlottesville marches.
-- A reporter asking a question during a debate was influenced by the possibility she was menstruating.
-- Suggested LBJ and John Dingell are in hell.
-- Believes notifying Congress about a slapdash attempt to start a war can be done via Twitter.
-- Complains constantly about not winning the Nobel Peace Prize, even after trying to start a war.
-- Thinks war crimes are fine.
-- Thinks nothing of threatening those in the civil service and intimidating witnesses.

With this kind of stream of consciousness nonsense, a little less access might be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by thollandpe

It's not really that hard.

Perhaps it's wrong to float that concept in a "dump trump" thread but the concept has some serious advantages. And it has legs.

Ranked Choice Voting - Yang22 - Andrew Yang for President

A concrete solution that helps reduce partisan gamesmanship and negative campaigning.

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I'm warming up to this.

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Originally Posted by theflashunc

Things we've learned from this President given unprecedented level of "access":

-- Windmills cause cancer.
-- You have to flush a toilet 10-15 times.
-- You need an ID to buy milk.
-- There were good people on both sides of the Charlottesville marches.
-- A reporter asking a question during a debate was influenced by the possibility she was menstruating.
-- Suggested LBJ and John Dingell are in hell.
-- Believes notifying Congress about a slapdash attempt to start a war can be done via Twitter.
-- Complains constantly about not winning the Nobel Peace Prize, even after trying to start a war.
-- Thinks war crimes are fine.
-- Thinks nothing of threatening those in the civil service and intimidating witnesses.

With this kind of stream of consciousness nonsense, a little less access might be a good thing.

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Yes people got used to having a scripted performer in the position. It’s uncomfortable for many to have a strong leader that just talks off the cuff without a filter. I get this. But whatever your position on trump is, I believe this is the type of leader folks should expect on the go forward. The age of ineffective lifelong politicians that are part of a ruling class is gone. And there is no putting that toothpaste back in the tube.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Yes people got used to having a scripted performer in the position. It’s uncomfortable for many to have a strong leader that just talks off the cuff without a filter. I get this. But whatever your position on trump is, I believe this is the type of leader folks should expect on the go forward. The age of ineffective lifelong politicians that are part of a ruling class is gone. And there is no putting that toothpaste back in the tube.

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We should expect better than a serial liar and fabulist who finds more common cause with authoritarian leaders than democratically elected allies.

Are you at all concerned about Trump's public claims that he wants to serve beyond a second term, should he win one?

nevermind...

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Yes people got used to having a scripted performer in the position.

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O.D.B. = Obama Derangement Burden

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qDE...RQ2c/giphy.gif

That's a tough one to carry.

Yeah...people like Obama, Kennedy, Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington...people who thought before they spoke.

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Originally Posted by Mark Kelly

The Australian system is basically ranked choice voting.

We still manage to elect dickhead troglodytes with no conception of the modern world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_UJ9_Qhekc

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And somewhat annoyingly he was an avid cyclist. Still, a ground roots political campaign and the preferential system got rid of him and that I think was a very big positive for Australian politics.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Yes people got used to having a scripted performer in the position. It’s uncomfortable for many to have a strong leader that just talks off the cuff without a filter. I get this. But whatever your position on trump is, I believe this is the type of leader folks should expect on the go forward. The age of ineffective lifelong politicians that are part of a ruling class is gone. And there is no putting that toothpaste back in the tube.

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Regardless of policy views, how the heck is Donald Trump a strong leader? He's incapable of accepting blame or admitting fault for anything. He's incapable of listening to experts on any subject. He's consistent in asking people to do things that he would never do himself. He doesn't care about anything other than securing power and money for himself.

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Originally Posted by zachateseverything

Regardless of policy views, how the heck is Donald Trump a strong leader? He's incapable of accepting blame or admitting fault for anything. He's incapable of listening to experts on any subject. He's consistent in asking people to do things that he would never do himself. He doesn't care about anything other than securing power and money for himself.

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Originally Posted by mzilliox

Strong leader? You poor fool

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The strongest we’ve seen as president for quite some some time. He will be re-elected for a 2nd term. He ushered in some of the best economic numbers in history with his tax cuts, trade policy, and deregulation. He reset the trade relationship with China through strength, we’ve been told to simply accept that the trade relations with China will always be unfair. He reset the relationship with the Middle East after the last president drew a red line then didn’t react when it was crossed. He has dramatically reduced illegal immigration. Record stock market highs.

Maybe these things aren’t important to you, but to most folks jobs, opportunity, increased wages, growing 401k are the foundation of their lives and the lives of their families. Maybe you’re the recipient of tremendous opportunity & privilege that these things aren’t important to you. Kudos to you and/or your family that put you in a position where these are not a very high priority in your life.

But they are to most people. Good people. Working people.

You’re entitled to your opinions, but the blind hatred of trump since the moment he was elected reeks of indoctrination and entitlement.

But look on the bright side, all of the hatred & efforts don’t seem to be affecting his ability to achieve results or his re-election chances. So let me know how that works out for you.