Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Thank you for the gracious and kind words, @JoB. Many of us at VSalon have pedaled together in real life.
I think of these threads as essentially chatting/comparing/contrasting among old friends on a group ride.
Have a good one. :-)
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corso
So it's bad budgeting. Odd how the same formula worked for decades before surprise students appeared. Perhaps it's because I see the situation first hand, and your 3,000 miles away. I guess Florida is truly a paradise.
surely this has nothing to do with things being fine for decades and now less funding. surely it has nothing to do with decreased funding and increased population?
A Punishing Decade for School Funding | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
is well funded public schools a value you hold? because the current admin is set to decrease public schools funding again...
Re: It's telling that there's no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue Jays
Precisely correct above, @
Corso. By virtue of bypassing systems and regulations, illegal immigrants immediately became criminals upon arrival.
Categorically incorrect. I mean not even close. Overstaying a tourist or work visa carries no criminal penalties. That's some 62% of people here without documentation. People seeking asylum also are not criminals.
Editing to add: People seeking asylum not only are not in violation of any criminal law, they are lawfully in this country as refugees when they are in the process of seeking asylum.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Trump's modus operandi seem very similar to me... can't quite put my finger on it.
Lets see:
Donald Trump = Lance Armstrong
Mike Pence = George Hincappie
Mike Pompeo = Johan Bruyneel
John Kelly = Frankie Andreu
etc.etc. etc.
I guess it'll take four more years and a sit down with Oprah for some to be heartbroken.
Yes, meant to be funny but entertaining nonetheless.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Good grief. Knowingly dodging and evading the rules and regulations of the host country speaks to intent.
Every law-abiding work colleague from elsewhere has meticulously and carefully adhered to requirements in my experience.
Were I to automagically take an opportunity to work overseas it would be my responsibility to dot all i's and cross all t's.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ras72
"...Lets see:
Donald Trump = Lance Armstrong
Mike Pence = George Hincappie
Mike Pompeo = Johan Bruyneel
John Kelly = Frankie Andreu
etc.etc. etc..."
Good one! A bit of cycling-related humor adds a bit of levity. :-)
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue Jays
Good grief. Knowingly dodging and evading the rules and regulations of the host country speaks to intent.
Every law-abiding work colleague from elsewhere has meticulously and carefully adhered to requirements in my experience.
Were I to automagically take an opportunity to work overseas it would be my responsibility to dot all i's and cross all t's.
And yet the data is clear that a significant portion of those here illegally are due to overstayed visas. It's just harder to round them up and make a scapegoat out of them because we actually let them in willfully and knowingly when that visa was valid. It's great that the visa holding colleagues of yours abide by the law. Mine do as well. But that doesn't mean they all do.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue Jays
Good grief. Knowingly dodging and evading the rules and regulations of the host country speaks to intent.
Every law-abiding work colleague from elsewhere has meticulously and carefully adhered to requirements in my experience.
Were I to automagically take an opportunity to work overseas it would be my responsibility to dot all i's and cross all t's.
But intent isn't enough to make someone a criminal. You have to be in violation of a criminal statute.
And asylum seekers are following the rules.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Matthew Strongin
"...It's great that the visa holding colleagues of yours abide by the law. Mine do as well. But that doesn't mean they all do..."
Agreed. You and I would both be very detailed (judging by your bicycles!) were we to take overseas work gigs.
It is reasonable that societies would have an unfavorable view on visitors who opt to flout basic rules. That is on them.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
some thoughts, light thoughts, they mean nothing, they are just free ideas.
borders are nothing but figments of our imaginations, constructs, only as real as we decide.
your parents humped here so you get the world, their parents humped over some imaginary line, so they have to do some special song and dance for the same things you get?
its good to be lucky
you are no more human than anyone else
how am i not myself
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corso
So it's bad budgeting. Odd how the same formula worked for decades before surprise students appeared. Perhaps it's because I see the situation first hand, and your 3,000 miles away. I guess Florida is truly a paradise.
Florida is a paradise. It's mid-February and I've ridden almost 1,600 miles thus far and that's with being sick early in the year. And I've only had to wear a sweater once. And I see the sunrise over the ocean almost daily. Despite being the butt of many jokes, Florida is an ok place.
That said, and mzillox touched on this, there are a lot of dynamics at play with those budgets, including decreasing budgets and/or increasing costs. What you see first hand is the attribution of a very complex problem to a very simple scapegoat. Of course adding unexpected students to a class will strain resources, but if the schoolboard and city/county are aware that there will be an increase in student enrollments (which could also be due to other factors unrelated to immigration) they should be better prepared. I'm also sure that we're not going to agree on this since you're geographically closer to the one example you gave and I have spent most of my life in a city that is over 50% foreign born and non-english speaking and my interaction with immigrants outweighs my interaction with native-born citizens by orders of magnitude. My entire community for almost my entire life is immigrant based and that has solidified my point of view that immigrants are a net positive. By a significant margin.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue Jays
Agreed. You and I would both be very detailed (judging by your bicycles!) were we to take overseas work gigs.
It is reasonable that societies would have an unfavorable view on visitors who opt to flout basic rules. That is on them.
At this point I'd be happy to just see some consistency in the portrayal of those approaching our borders in need and those who decide not to go home when their visa expires when it comes to flouting those rules. That's not what's happening, though.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Acquittal thread on VS...
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Matthew Strongin
my interaction with immigrants outweighs my interaction with native-born citizens by orders of magnitude. My entire community for almost my entire life is immigrant based and that has solidified my point of view that immigrants are a net positive. By a significant margin.
#no one has a problem with immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
By switching immigrants with illegal immigrants, the topic is simply not the same. There is a difference. It's hard to have a conversation when I say apples and you say oranges.
It's as if I said "I don't like strawberry ice cream", then the headlines ink the Salon scream CORSO HATES ICE CREAM_ALL FLAVORS!
It's the ones breaking the law. It's not legit asylum seekers. It's not the ones who get visas, green cards, student visa, etc etc.
My grandparents on my fathers side came over through Staten Island from Italy. Legally.
My mothers side is Mexican, from the New Mexico and Arizona region way back when it was part of Mexico the country.
New immigration laws are needed. Agreed. Blame our elected officials for not moving forward, and using the situation as fodder for elections.
I'm for moving on from this topic. What do you say?
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corso
#no one
has a problem with immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
By switching immigrants with illegal immigrants, the topic is simply not the same. There is a difference. It's hard to have a conversation when I say apples and you say oranges.
It's as if I said "I don't like strawberry ice cream", then the headlines ink the Salon scream CORSO HATES ICE CREAM_ALL FLAVORS!
It's the ones breaking the law. It's not legit asylum seekers. It's not the ones who get visas, green cards, student visa, etc etc.
My grandparents on my fathers side came over through Staten Island from Italy. Legally.
My mothers side is Mexican, from the New Mexico and Arizona region way back when it was part of Mexico the country.
New immigration laws are needed. Agreed. Blame our elected officials for not moving forward, and using the situation as fodder for elections.
I'm for moving on from this topic. What do you say?
The current administration has also taken fairly drastic steps to reduce the number of legal immigrants coming into the country. I would describe that as a problem.
Trump's attacks on the legal immigration system explained | American Friends Service Committee
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corso
#no one has a problem with immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
By switching immigrants with illegal immigrants, the topic is simply not the same. There is a difference. It's hard to have a conversation when I say apples and you say oranges.
It's as if I said "I don't like strawberry ice cream", then the headlines ink the Salon scream CORSO HATES ICE CREAM_ALL FLAVORS!
It's the ones breaking the law. It's not legit asylum seekers. It's not the ones who get visas, green cards, student visa, etc etc.
My grandparents on my fathers side came over through Staten Island from Italy. Legally.
My mothers side is Mexican, from the New Mexico and Arizona region way back when it was part of Mexico the country.
New immigration laws are needed. Agreed. Blame our elected officials for not moving forward, and using the situation as fodder for elections.
I'm for moving on from this topic. What do you say?
The ones overwhelming coming to our southern border, especially children, are leaving horrendous conditions in their home countries in no small part due to our political meddling. We are bound by international convention and treaties to treat them with a modicum of dignity and respect for their claims of asylum. Not to mention basic human decency. Instead, it's being weaponized as the hordes at our Southern border and we have to defend ourselves against them. Against, what, desperate people coming here for the hope of a better life? Your Italian ancestors didn't apply for an immigration lottery and wait years to get an answer. They got on a friggin' boat and the US government dealt with them when they arrived here, usually dumping them out of the system in fairly quick order.
Just because its "the law" doesn't make it anymore a moral authority on what the right thing to do in this situation is. And the conclusion that throwing up a wall and demonizing these folks will solve anything other than making this country appear all the more cruel, uncaring and indifferent to those in need is absurd. Let 'em all in.
We don't need new immigration laws. We need fewer immigration laws.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corso
Matt, I believe every state is different, but this is my world in Massachusetts. Trust me - it's real.
Where I live on the North Shore of MA, I have seen our schools effected. Example- the school budgets for 28 kids per class, per history of students and census. 34 kids show up for the same class, teacher now is short of supplies, and often buys them themselves. Now times that by x amount of classes per grade. School can not say no to enrolled students, so overcrowding occurs. Now language issues happen, and translator(s) need to be hired-not budgeted for. Sports programs have turned into "pay-to-play" as the budget shuffle begins. un-accounted for kids who are gifted at sport often have to have their sport tuition absorbed by the rate the other parents must pay. The assumption is that citizen parents can afford the cost of co-opting the others. Threats of cutting those programs are now a yearly event, unless parents pay more and more. Art programs have been the first to be cut, followed by music and others. Teachers often hold cancelled classes after school, on their dime. Teachers have lost their aides due to budget cost.
Additional Food programs have been added, the gov and/or state pays for the food, but not the staff.
This is the middle school and high school situation.
I've also posted this before: Homeless US veterans are put behind un-documented families for living quarters. And during the process, if a city (state) worker asks if the undocumented are here legally, they can, will and have been fired. Families are often put up in hotels, due to the established housing being overfilled. Buses and vans are now added to the schools overtaxed budget, to go off-route to those hotels to pick up the children for school. Vets waiting for their housing keep getting pushed back in line. I've done volunteer work for homeless veterans, I know this as fact.
A nearby city has declared itself a "sanctuary city", and guess who's city has gained in number simply due to geography?
The city is not always able to re-coup cost from the state. I know this from the city council. Road re-paving and other projects have been delayed, due to budget over-runs. Our industrial park (a large tax base) has been losing occupants due to raising taxes...we do gain a few from other higher taxed locations, but overall, we have a lot of large empty buildings.
I'm sure there may be more issues I've forgotten at the moment, or don't even know about. None of this is "Fox News", this is reality where I live.
I am not without compassion for those who have less than I do. I'm just saying that nothing is free in life, somewhere someone foots the bill.
6 kids aren't showing up unexpectedly in every class because of illegal immigration (20% of the kids in this country aren't here illegally) and if they did, the additional cost to educate 6 more pupils is marginal.
School funding shortages are primarily driven by tax cuts at the federal and state level. This is the playbook:
1. conservatives push through tax cuts under a claim that "they pay for themselves." (this has never been the case, ever)
2. the resulting budget shortfall brings in a round of belt tightening at all levels of government. at the extremes you'll see stuff like art or music programs getting dropped from schools or infrastructure programs delayed as long as possible.
3. after a feeling a minor prick, wealthier communities will pass tax levys and effectively restore the original tax rate.
4. poorer areas however don't have the tax base to make up the gap and have to do without such luxury goods as paint marking road lanes, or notebook paper being available in the local public schools
5. conservatives then try to push through another round of tax cuts that "will pay for themselves."
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zachateseverything
6 kids aren't showing up unexpectedly in every class because of illegal immigration (20% of the kids in this country aren't here illegally) and if they did, the additional cost to educate 6 more pupils is marginal.
School funding shortages are primarily driven by tax cuts at the federal and state level. This is the playbook:
1. conservatives push through tax cuts under a claim that "they pay for themselves." (this has never been the case, ever)
2. the resulting budget shortfall brings in a round of belt tightening at all levels of government. at the extremes you'll see stuff like art or music programs getting dropped from schools or infrastructure programs delayed as long as possible.
3. after a feeling a minor prick, wealthier communities will pass tax levys and effectively restore the original tax rate.
4. poorer areas however don't have the tax base to make up the gap and have to do without such luxury goods as paint marking road lanes, or notebook paper being available in the local public schools
5. conservatives then try to push through another round of tax cuts that "will pay for themselves."
Thanks for giving your opinion on something you know little about. Move to Massachusetts, go to the city council meetings I go to, speak to teachers, the school department, the mayor, president of the housing authority, teachers, police and parents who I'm friends with - of the largely Democratic state I live in.
Always the conservatives fault? Nonsense.
Speak for your own city or towns situation, do not attempt to lecture me on mine.
Re: It's telling that there's no Acquittal thread on VS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lumpy
Categorically incorrect. I mean not even close. Overstaying a tourist or work visa carries no criminal penalties. That's some 62% of people here without documentation. People seeking asylum also are not criminals.
Editing to add: People seeking asylum not only are not in violation of any criminal law, they are lawfully in this country as refugees when they are in the process of seeking asylum.
Thank you Counselor for that clarification.
Re: It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...
"Knowingly dodging and evading the rules and regulations of the host country speaks to intent."
Tell that to the guy in the oval office.