2020 Presidential Election: Who will be Joe Biden’s running mate?

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Originally Posted by GrantM

it's a test, folks.

Trump admits he’s sabotaging USPS funding to curb mail voting - Vox

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Anecdotally, my recent experience with USPS is one of unusual delays and that jibes with the recent experience of some other cats I know. I don't think it is a test at all. There is no low below which he will not stoop, there is no law he will not break, there is nothing he will not do in service of himself, and right now the only thing he cares about is getting reelected. His freedom may well depend on it.

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Originally Posted by HorsCat

I don't think it is a test at all. There is no low below which he will not stoop, there is no law he will not break, there is nothing he will not do in service of himself

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the public are the ones being tested. the orange man should be frog-marched from the building,
the fact he won't means your nation has already failed.

-g

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Originally Posted by GrantM

the fact he won't means your nation has already failed.

-g

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No disagreement from me there, though there is one thing I will quibble with...I owe allegiances to two nations. One of them is - now - a third world basket case. The other is South Africa!

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Originally Posted by Mabouya

Was it wasted because she didn't win, or for some other reason?

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Wasted in that I was voting in Illinois so it was a foregone conclusion that she would carry IL so I should have voted for a third party.

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Originally Posted by JJohnson

Wasted in that I was voting in Illinois so it was a foregone conclusion that she would carry IL so I should have voted for a third party.

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Well, until this country gets rid of the Electoral College that's going to be an issue for a lot of people.

I think that Missouri is almost certainly going to go for Trump again in 2020, but that isn't going to stop me from voting, nor will I feel that I wasted my time. I still want my +1 to be in the Biden column, whether he wins the state or not.

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Originally Posted by Mabouya

Well, until this country gets rid of the Electoral College that's going to be an issue for a lot of people.

I think that Missouri is almost certainly going to go for Trump again in 2020, but that isn't going to stop me from voting, nor will I feel that I wasted my time. I still want my +1 to be in the Biden column, whether he wins the state or not.

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I unfortunately have to agree with you that Missouri will go that way; the map of counties that voted against amendment 2 recently shows why. Hopefully we can get rid of Parsons though.

If you vote on a Tuesday, how about a public holiday to enable people to get out and vote?

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Originally Posted by BBB

If you vote on a Tuesday, how about a public holiday to enable people to get out and vote?

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Good luck with that. Unfortunately, one of the two main US political parties wants as few people as possible to vote.

So much for being a functioning democratic republic.

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Originally Posted by bbb

if you vote on a tuesday, how about a public holiday to enable people to get out and vote?

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yep.

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Originally Posted by BBB

If you vote on a Tuesday, how about a public holiday to enable people to get out and vote?

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Are you f'ing crazy? that would increase voter participation.

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Originally Posted by BBB

If you vote on a Tuesday, how about a public holiday to enable people to get out and vote?

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Hey Man if we're getting Crazy in here about making voting a requirement to get a Drivers License!

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Originally Posted by rydesteel

Hey Man if we're getting Crazy in here about making voting a requirement to get a Drivers License!

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How about requiring a Federal ID in order to vote? Never mind, with mail -in voting nobody is going to know who mails in whoevers ballot anyway.

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Originally Posted by Corso

How about requiring a Federal ID in order to vote?

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Such as?

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Originally Posted by Corso

How about requiring a Federal ID in order to vote? Never mind, with mail -in voting nobody is going to know who mails in whoevers ballot anyway.

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Just a reminder that Trump mails in his vote.

NEWS FLASH

Trump accuses someone else of ignoring science !!!

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Originally Posted by Corso

How about requiring a Federal ID in order to vote? Never mind, with mail -in voting nobody is going to know who mails in whoevers ballot anyway.

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Voter fraud is so incredibly rare because changing a few votes in an election of 120 million isn't worth risking a felony. The handful of people who commit voter fraud are several standard deviations short of average intelligence.

The vast majority of the population will only commit a felony if there is a very large chance of a significant reward.

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Originally Posted by bcm119

Voter fraud is so incredibly rare because changing a few votes in an election of 120 million isn't worth risking a felony. The handful of people who commit voter fraud are several standard deviations short of average intelligence.

The vast majority of the population will only commit a felony if there is a very large chance of a significant reward.

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At the national level, it is rare, it does happen a local level. What the Heritage and other organizations are doing is a switch.... they use examples of voter fraud from small local elections, school board, small town mayor, sheriff, where locals try to manipulate local races by a few votes. Or a person running for office doesn't live where they say they do and have registered at a relatives or parents address to enter a race. It's all petty local stuff. They then embellish the story about wide spread vote harvesting, busing etc....

Florida already has 56+% of resident's voting by mail as of last election. Republicans are encouraging mail-in Florida votes because it helps them. They claim there is a system. What system?

However in Pennsylvania which will be close, they think it will hurt them and are now manipulating the USPS to suppress the vote. It's all pretty horrible. The next step which is 100% certainty, is the closing of polling station democratic leaning districts in these battleground states to put the finger on the scale. This is what people should find outrageous. But my Trump supporting friends all equate this to vote harvesting in California and only care about winning....

I only see scorched earth between November and January for a contested election.

All of this still blows my tiny little mind. At some point we, as a voting nation, will be forced to install so @#$% many new guardrails that our democracy will be something entirely different than it was. Is that a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by vertical_doug

At the national level, it is rare, it does happen a local level. What the Heritage and other organizations are doing is a switch.... they use examples of voter fraud from small local elections, school board, small town mayor, sheriff, where locals try to manipulate local races by a few votes. Or a person running for office doesn't live where they say they do and have registered at a relatives or parents address to enter a race. It's all petty local stuff. They then embellish the story about wide spread vote harvesting, busing etc....

Florida already has 56+% of resident's voting by mail as of last election. Republicans are encouraging mail-in Florida votes because it helps them. They claim there is a system. What system?

However in Pennsylvania which will be close, they think it will hurt them and are now manipulating the USPS to suppress the vote. It's all pretty horrible. The next step which is 100% certainty, is the closing of polling station democratic leaning districts in these battleground states to put the finger on the scale. This is what people should find outrageous. But my Trump supporting friends all equate this to vote harvesting in California and only care about winning....

I only see scorched earth between November and January for a contested election.

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When I lived in Oregon it was (and still is) all mail-in voting. Every registered voter was mailed a ballot a month or so from election day; you filled it out at your leisure, and dropped it off in a mailbox or designated box. Easiest elections I ever voted in. Apparently there were polling places available if you wanted, but no one ever used them. This was pre-Trump so of course the concept of mail voting hadn't been politicized yet and no one thought twice about it. People in places like NY standing in lines for hours to vote it is a foreign concept to Oregonians (and WA, UT and CO) and seems so antiquated and unnecessary.

In Florida we vote by mail all the time. You can request the ballot online, you get it and don't need a stamp to mail it back. The amount of ignorance shown by some is incredible, maybe they know and pretend they don't.

But if you vote by mail, what happens to your democracy sausage?

I voted by mail when I was in the military, as did all my fellow servicemembers. There was no issue with it then.

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Originally Posted by edoz

I voted by mail when I was in the military, as did all my fellow servicemembers. There was no issue with it then.

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Of course there were no problems. But the whole point is to start sowing seeds of doubt about the process if you don't like the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Mark Kelly

But if you vote by mail, what happens to your democracy sausage?

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Americans just don't understand what democracy is actually all about.

I voted in the last Australian election at the consulate in Berlin, and even there they made sure that all had a democracy sausage, even vegans like me.

#democracysausage NOW!!!

I just voted in the September primary. My ballot arrived in two days.

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Originally Posted by ides1056

I just voted in the September primary. My ballot arrived in two days.

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I'm gonna starta new poll.

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Originally Posted by ABiCi

Americans just don't understand what democracy is actually all about.

I voted in the last Australian election at the consulate in Berlin, and even there they made sure that all had a democracy sausage, even vegans like me.

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A democracy currywurst!

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Originally Posted by Too Tall

I'm gonna starta new poll.

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Josh, plz also start one about who everyone THINKS is going to win, not who they want to win, voted for, wish was running, etc. Curious.

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Originally Posted by zambenini

Josh, plz also start one about who everyone THINKS is going to win, not who they want to win, voted for, wish was running, etc. Curious.

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I was kidding but hey we should make it a dead man's pool. Whoever loses gets the bounty to pay for psychiatry and Tequilla.

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Originally Posted by Will Neide

Just a reminder that Trump mails in his vote.

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If this President went to a public polling place the media would be up his ass for a photo op and disrupting the public blah blah blah. C'mon, be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Corso

If this President went to a public polling place the media would be up his ass for a photo op and disrupting the public blah blah blah. C'mon, be reasonable.

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Corso, I'm really a little baffled by your post.

Is this an argument that there are good reasons that citizens would want to vote via mail? Would fear of spreading COVID be a good reason? Or not?
Are you suggesting that the famous should be allowed to vote by mail as to not disrupt polling places?
And what am I to make of the endless photo ops showing politicians voting?

Personally, what I see in Trump's actions is just another self-serving lie.

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Originally Posted by davids

Corso, I'm really a little baffled by your post.

Is this an argument that there are good reasons that citizens would want to vote via mail? Would fear of spreading COVID be a good reason? Or not?
Are you suggesting that the famous should be allowed to vote by mail as to not disrupt polling places?
And what am I to make of the endless photo ops showing politicians voting?

Personally, what I see in Trump's actions is just another self-serving lie.

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Davids, I'm not completely defending Trump, just pointing out the obvious. Mail it in, go vote in person, Trump haters are going to find fault in whatever he does. Just as you did.

If Liz Warren is filmed voting, one may say "Great". If Trump does the same, one may say "photo op, should be doing his job, Secret Service keeping citizens from voting, etc "

You are putting a bagful of words in my mouth, insinuating far more than my simple statement said.

That said, I fully expect Basement Joe to mail it in.

Just received my official MA application for a mail in ballot. Anyone who wants to vote illegally had to do is take this out of my mailbox, have the ballot sent to another address, (space provided) and mail in the ballot as me. I'm sure you may have received the same application. Anyone who wants to screw with the process has opportunity to. Will the actual ballot have a fool proof qualifying way to make sure I was the actual person mailing it in? I doubt it.


I'll be voting in person.

I'm calling BS Corso. Quit salting the fields and engage with meaningful discussion. WTF cares about innuendo. Talk facts or shut the fuck up. xxoo

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Originally Posted by Corso

...Trump haters are going to find fault in whatever he does... ...Basement Joe...

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Trump is hyper-critizened because he’s hyper-critical. It’s the bed he’s made. We’re all just playing by the rules he’s set forth. Why is it not right to question or criticize at the same rate as what’s questionable?

And the name calling, my word, I hope we all grow up very soon. We, as a country, need to get out of the sandbox and stop portraying our government as some grade school rivalry.

Stop the name calling. Rise above. Be kind. Treat as you want to be treated. Not everyone is the enemy. Blah blah fucking blah. It’s all very easy when it’s not used as an acceptable approach from the president of the USA.

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Originally Posted by Corso

Davids, I'm not completely defending Trump, just pointing out the obvious. Mail it in, go vote in person, Trump haters are going to find fault in whatever he does. Just as you did.

If Liz Warren is filmed voting, one may say "Great". If Trump does the same, one may say "photo op, should be doing his job, Secret Service keeping citizens from voting, etc "

You are putting a bagful of words in my mouth, insinuating far more than my simple statement said.

That said, I fully expect Basement Joe to mail it in.

Just received my official MA application for a mail in ballot. Anyone who wants to vote illegally had to do is take this out of my mailbox, have the ballot sent to another address, (space provided) and mail in the ballot as me. I'm sure you may have received the same application. Anyone who wants to screw with the process has opportunity to. Will the actual ballot have a fool proof qualifying way to make sure I was the actual person mailing it in? I doubt it.


I'll be voting in person.

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My friend,

My question was legit - I feel I know you well enough to know you're a reasonable person with whom I can have a conversation.

Just to be clear, the fault I find here is Trump's blatant hypocrisy. Mail-in voting is not only good enough for him, he has repeatedly voted by mail and is doing it again. But it is not good enough for "you", and it will result in massive fraud. His actions here are transparently self-serving as a set up to question the results of the upcoming election. It is painfully obvious.

I agree with you that there seems to be a possibility for fraud here that's pretty straightforward. Someone could steal my ballot, or the postcard that asked if I wanted a mail-in ballot. It is hard for me to see how this could ever be scaled up to the level where it could steal an election. Someone could also impersonate me in person, at my polling place. I'm asked my name and address, but not for any proof that I am who I say I am. I knew a couple of the precinct poll workers at my former home, but even after 4+ years, no one here.

I also know that the USA hasn't seen any instances of massive ballot fraud, certainly not related to mail-in voting. Of course ballot fraud happens. But this whole fraud by mail is a red herring. Well, with one exception I can think of. Imagine you could control the mail for the entire nation, and either delay or prevent it from reaching its destinations. That could really wreak havoc with mail-in ballots.

My plan is to drop off my ballot at City Hall. Just to be sure no one meddles with my ballot.

Candidates vote in their home district polling place all the time. It’s good TV.

I’ll do it whatever I need to do to make sure my ballot isn’t “lost” or “invalid“ or whatever.

I live in Arizona, I vote by mail. The recent primaries had a 37% turnout. A large envelope shows up with my ballot, instructions, and postage-paid return. Color in the ovals and sign the envelope, bam. When I was in the military, I voted absentee. Sometimes my vote was counted, oftentimes not. If a candidate wins by 200K votes and there are 80K military absentee ballots, they won't get counted. Absentees come into play in tight contests.

Hmm, I planned to vote absentee, but a friend pointed out "would you mail cash?" NC is a close state. Fauci telling me voting is no worse than going to the supermarket.

Can voter fraud happen? Sure, I guess. Here, one goes to the high school, your name is crossed off a list, and you vote. No ID required. Easy to pretend you are someone else. I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would do this, considering it's one vote, and considering the potential legal ramifications. Very small payoff for extraordinary risk.

Can vote-by-mail fraud exist? Sure. Again, though, how would this happen on a systemic level? Armies of a candidate's homies roaming the countryside stealing mail? I don't think so. Legions of Biden or Trump agents infiltrating the Post Office and stealing/changing ballots? Nah.

The only voter fraud going on is being performed at the state level, setting into place the same nonsense as literacy tests of the Jim Crow South. The only voter fraud going on involves those who are making it increasingly difficult for large portions of the population to vote by demolishing the very means by which that is possible (i.e., the Post Office).

Nobody talks about requiring ID in the (relatively) wealthy, almost all-white community where I live. Nobody. Districts that are mostly inhabited by people of color? Well, you'll need a driver's license/ passport/ affidavit/ certified letter signed by the governor.

Voting should be easy, not hard, and if the balance to achieve this goal tips a little towards increasing the (remote, unlikely) possibility of fraud, so be it - our democracy is preserved. But I maintain that both reasonable security and universal, easy voting are not only mutually possible, but quite easy. All that has to be done is not fuck the Post Office.