Who will challenge Trump? Who you like?

Regardless of what you may think due to past and recent postings, I'm keeping my options open and I'm paying attention to what the D's have to say.

I like what I've heard from Kobuchar- she was for strict borders before she was against them- but hey, she's running for her parties nomination, so you gotta do what ya gotta do...

I'm glad Warren is getting - as she often says "hammered", because she's my Senator and other than making a ton of noise, she'd done nothing for me or my state. She's one giant walking house of hypocrisy. But then again, I "know" her due to geography.

If I were "closer" to the others, I may know more about them, like Liz. Thats why I started this thread, I want to hear form you folks who know the other candidates in more detail than I have.

Bloomberg---I'm not totally against. I know he's getting slammed for things he's said in the past, but honestly, he was calling it like he saw it in a few categories.

Bernie may be too far of the pendulum. It went way left With Obama, swung way right with Trump. I'm not sure we're ready for another waaaaay left swing.

Pete: I like what he has to say most times, but youth and "just" being a Mayor worries me. Congress and House will smack him around as not being one of "them".

Biden- just no. His vice presidency was a gift. He sounds awful lately.

Trump- we all know what we have now with him.

I'm sitting...Corso are you a swing voter? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Too Tall

I'm sitting...Corso are you a swing voter? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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I started off as an Independent for years. Switched to the Republican side of the fence around the time of Reagan.

I've often voted for Democrats- living in Mass, what choice do I have? I have several dear friends who have been Democratic elected officials.

I voted Trump; 1: anyone but Hillary and 2: to support my party.

So, yes, I guess you could call me a swing voter.

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Originally Posted by Corso

So, yes, I guess you could call me a swing voter.

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Swing voter in a non-swing state...at least MA has open primaries!

For the candidates...
I can't back Bloomberg, he's an authoritarian with no compassion

Code:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVzWqGAUFeI

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; he's been using his money to buy influence–after all everyone has a price. Buttigieg is too green, and constantly uses his eloquent-but-shallow McKinsey-speak to woo audiences; try to parse his words, there's not much there. Klobuchar seems to have temper issues, but I don't have much against her. That said all 3 of the aforementioned seem to have bad history with minority issues. Makes me miss having Marianne on the stage.

I'll enjoy spending the next few weeks watching Klob and Butt tear each other apart, and curiously await to see the Bloomberg endorsements come in as people accept his money.

I think the only challenge to Trump will come from the voters. No one the Democrats are going to put up is going to change enough minds to win based on their personality or acumen. That's different than saying none of them are qualified - I'm not saying that at all. But individual voters have to decide that dollars paid to services rendered is not a ratio that is working in their favor. Doesn't have to be a big shift, but there has to be a shift. If voters don't move - and thereby challenge Trump's strength at the voting booth - then it will just be a redo of 2016. Maybe a few people here and there, but no real shift.

I think Democrats should pick someone who will unify the party. Because if they just lose, then the election is a complete waste. They need to figure out what the hell they are for. I don't know why I think the Democrats will be able to do this when no one else in this country seems able. Currently the Democrats seem to be for plurality - or metaphorically speaking, a long house with a long table in it where everyone gets a seat. But that's not a political platform that will bring more people to the party. That just makes everyone who is already in the house and seated happy.

It is Athens v. Sparta all over again.

Anyway, pick someone who will unify the party or at least create a solid core of reasonable heft that can carry a platform of ideas through to the next election.

And verily cats and dog will lie down together and cows will jump the moon.

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Originally Posted by Corso

..........to support my party.

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I am loath to engage in these discussions anymore.

But please support your country, not your party.

Country>Party

Parties don’t unite. They divide.

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Originally Posted by Corso

Bernie may be too far of the pendulum. It went way left With Obama, swung way right with Trump. I'm not sure we're ready for another waaaaay left swing.

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"Way left with Obama" Really? How's that?

As to Bernie:
Did Canada's national single payer system make them "left"? It certainly made Canada more fiscally solvent than our Byzantine system would, never mind the benefit to the lives of Canadians.
Support of unions as a counter balance to corporate power = "left"?
Opposition to NAFTA and TPP = "left"?
Getting corporate $ out of politics = "left"?
Increasing taxes for the ridiculously wealthy could be considered left but it's also good for society. Thomas Pikety's "Capital in the 21st Century" is worth reading for a retrospective on how doing just that helped not only win WWII but build the post WWII world.
"Free" college for all? Sure, but I'd imagine that it could be detuned to be merely "affordable college, trade school, etc. for all".
Bernie had the wisdom to oppose the Iraq invasion. That would have saved a fair bit of $$ and prevented wrecking another country and killing around a million of non-combatants.
Reinstate Glass Setagal = "left"?

I suggest reviewing his stance on all the issues, here: Bernie Sanders on the issues

I'm voting for my country and doing so means that I'll support any Democratic presidential candidate including Biden because all of them are better for the country than Trump.

What I hope our country has the opportunity to vote for, and our population has the wisdom and vision to support, is a Sanders/Abrams ticket.

Rather than referencing the term "left" (which is a dull knife indeed, and doesn't exist in the US), I'll tell you what can ruin a country: An excessive concentration of power and wealth in a tiny percentage of the population coupled with an authoritarian ruler. History is chock a block full of examples.

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Originally Posted by jclay

"Way left with Obama" Really? How's that?

As to Bernie:
Did Canada's national single payer system make them "left"? It certainly made Canada more fiscally solvent than our Byzantine system would.
Support of unions as a counter balance to corporate power = "left"?
Opposition to NAFTA and TPP = "left"?
Getting corporate $ out of politics = "left"?
Increasing taxes for the ridiculously wealthy could be considered left but it's also good for society. Thomas Pikety's "Capital in the 21st Century" is worth reading for a retrospective on how doing just that helped not only win WWII but build the post WWII world.
"Free" college for all? Sure, but I'd imagine that it could be detuned to be merely "affordable college, trade school, etc. for all".
Bernie had the wisdom to oppose the Iraq invasion. That would have saved a fair bit of $$ and prevented wrecking another country and killing around a million of non-combatants.
Reinstate Glass Setagal = "left"?

I suggest reviewing his stance on all the issues, here: Bernie Sanders on the issues

I'm voting for my country and doing so means that I'll support any Democratic presidential candidate including Biden because all of them are better for the country than Trump.

What I hope our country has the opportunity to vote for, and our population has the wisdom and vision to support, is a Sanders/Abrams ticket.

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I think he was using the royal "we" singular ;)

Carry on, this is a good thread.

Here's my challenge (and it's to me as well): Visit each candidate's "on the issues page" and read every sentence of every issue stance. Every sentence, every issue.

Jay, I'm about 80% there. In the meantime I'll challenge you(z) back. That's a youz all not just John. Despite being raised by hard working hippies who walked the walk wrt social justice blah blah blah until I was a full adult there were some things about racial inequalities which eluded me. If you feel compelled there are only 1000 ways to deepen your own understanding. I'm doing the same. This is important because not one single candidate is without scrutiny in this regard. Fair or not is argumentative, what matters is who you are right @#$% now. Myself, until adulthood I never fully realized how deep are the wounds ongoing for minority people. Read alot, but talk to people more is my take on this. FWIIW recently released movie "Just Mercy" ain't too shabby a start.

Deep breath.

Back to reading the utter BS on 100% of the candidates pages ;)

I read Just Mercy, which is why I said that an all-white jury had exonerated the president.

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Originally Posted by Too Tall

I think he was using the royal "we" singular ;)

Carry on, this is a good thread.

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Thanks Josh.

I've grown tired of defending and debating about every single word I submit here. Just read (or choose not to) my comments, and leave it.

I can say left, right up down, middle, banana - just let it go and post your opinions. Stop creating arguments for the sake of venting.

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Originally Posted by Too Tall

Jay, I'm about 80% there. In the meantime I'll challenge you(z) back. That's a youz all not just John. Despite being raised by hard working hippies who walked the walk wrt social justice blah blah blah until I was a full adult there were some things about racial inequalities which eluded me. If you feel compelled there are only 1000 ways to deepen your own understanding. I'm doing the same. This is important because not one single candidate is without scrutiny in this regard. Fair or not is argumentative, what matters is who you are right @#$% now. Myself, until adulthood I never fully realized how deep are the wounds ongoing for minority people. Read alot, but talk to people more is my take on this. FWIIW recently released movie "Just Mercy" ain't too shabby a start.

Deep breath.

Back to reading the utter BS on 100% of the candidates pages ;)

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I'm digging into How to Be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi and finding it challenging.

FWIW, Kendi’s earlier book is superior in every way. The “antiracist” book reads more like a, I won a huge national book award and almost died...gotta make some $$$. His “Stamped from the beginning” is a masterpiece. If you can’t bear reading history, skip to the last chapter or two. It is mind expanding.

Media is reporting emerging possibility of a Mayor Bloomberg / Secretary of State Clinton ticket.

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Originally Posted by Blue Jays

Media is reporting emerging possibility of a Mayor Bloomberg / Secretary of State Clinton ticket.

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I always found Bloomberg to be smart but to pick Clinton is a losing ticket. He needs someone like Amy Klobuchar who can appeal to heartland. Bloomberg as a life long NYer does not appeal to the middle. If he adds Clinton, then the Bernie fans will feel cheated again by the DNC leaders as the fix is in. I really hope this is a leak by someone trying to sabotage Hillary early in the process

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Originally Posted by Blue Jays

Media is reporting emerging possibility of a Mayor Bloomberg / Secretary of State Clinton ticket.

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Dewd. Drop and gimme 20.

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Originally Posted by vertical_doug

I always found Bloomberg to be smart but to pick Clinton is a losing ticket. He needs someone like Amy Klobuchar who can appeal to heartland. Bloomberg as a life long NYer does not appeal to the middle. If he adds Clinton, then the Bernie fans will feel cheated again by the DNC leaders as the fix is in. I really hope this is a leak by someone trying to sabotage Hillary early in the process

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You too. Make it 30.

She is simply the best person for the job.

2020 Democratic primary: The case for Elizabeth Warren - Ezra Klein

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/naId...1155904169.jpg
I love to watch her work.

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Originally Posted by Blue Jays

Media is reporting emerging possibility of a Mayor Bloomberg / Secretary of State Clinton ticket.

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What media? You should identify sources by name or provide a link to the article.

Clinton and Bloomberg are not enamored of each other, and Clinton would not be Vice President and Bloomberg wouldn't either. Plus they are both from the same state and even the dumbest politician knows that concept is DOA, especially if both are from New York, the state Republicans love to visit and love to hate. Sounds like bullshit or baitfish.