Printable View
you could start with Gish's furniture. they contract out to Mennonites and Amish. they don't do kitchens but they'll know someone who does. gishs.com
also, you could ask for rec's on any of the common woodworking forums. lots of talent in SC and SE PA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall
When we added a back half to our last house I had all countertops and bathroom vanitys raised 2 1/2 " The house sold in 6 hrs. and what a wonderful pleasure it was to have that extra height.
My builder also added height to a couple key doorways.
I'm going to sneak in an extra 1" for this kitchen...more than that is noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnoble485
The contractors are set to show up at CasaTMB on Sept 8 to start the kitchen re-do.
I have made some things more difficult on them, and on my wife by insisting that anything coming out, be taken out intact so that it can be donated to the Habitat for Humanity outlet. The existing cabinets are solid Oak, so they should be renewed.
We are not changing very much, nothing in terms of floor layout. The island is going back in the same place and the fridge and cooktop will be in the same places. We use a downdraft cooktop so putting it back in the same place will save huge money.
We are putting in a cooling/refrigerated drawer separate and apart from the fridge (beer should be cold) and getting rid of the microwave and most other gadgets.
We are going to a double wall oven which will be nice.
We found a local cabinet maker (recent Austrian immigrant) who is custom making the cabinets on site for less than the cost of a "cabinet pack" from one of the main suppliers.
I am looking forward to the kitchen. I am not looking forward to writing cheques.
Great news TMB. Send that cabinet maker to Maryland ok?
Update!!! I *think we have our guy to do the job. Friend of a friend, he generally does high end new homes and in the biz for ages. We did alot of handwaving and he took a few measurements. Love it when someone is so d@mn good that they just need a survey by eye, alot of questions and than we get down to business.
Today we pick out all new appliances. Feel free to chime in on the following:
1. Wall oven - Bosch is looking good
2. Microwave - Install in combo with wall oven
3. Drop in gas cooktop 36" - Honestly GE looks good! Thermador and Blue Star total toss up. *NO QUESTION I want a center burner that will light up my wok.
4. Dishwasher - Bosch end of story
5. Fridge - favoring lower freezer double upper door and no ice maker.
6. Exhaust Hood - No clue. Do I need to worry about return air?
Surfaces - Going with Soapstone for the prep/sink countertops and textured granite for the cooking island. My guy likes waxed soapstone which I agree with since it does not make the stone too dark and care involves very occasional waxing.
Floor - hardwood to match
-- no imperfection.., just perfection.., you have..
consider:
thermador cooktop is tops.., we have..
exhaust hood -- no return air needed.., just exhaust it alllll!!
ronnie with a smile & a smell for the awesomeness to be prepared
Like Ronnie, great success with a Thermador 5 burner gas cooktop and double wall ovens...16 years doing the job for Mrs. RW, who is the mad kitchen alchemist. In terms of hoods, look at KitchenAire. They've been around a long time, perform well, are reasonably priced and you can get filters and other parts. No make up air needed...just direct vent to the great outdoors and let your neighbors be envious of the aroma.
Kitchen-Aire Hoods and Custom Hood Designs — Transforming the Ordinary to Extrodinary
Sorry skipping ahead but here's some ideas that I forget if I keep reading.
Hoods - the one built into a microwave won't be great.
I cut a slot into my counter top for a knife holder and love it. Takes up less space than a block and more convenient than a drawer.
Ikea kitchen cabinets (I know they have been ruled out) are good stuff. I've done 3 kitchens with them and the price:performance is very good.
You are tall and this is your chance to have a prep station that is at a good height for you. Take it.
The distance from the top of the counter top to the bottom of the wall cabinets is whatever you want it to be. I like them a little high so it is easier to work at that counter.
Our garbage and compost bins are in a slide out cabinet in the island where all the prep is done. Very convenient.
Sound- wiring for speakers is a great idea. We use ours all the time. But if you prefer to use a wireless solution like Sonos or a bluetooth speaker make sure you have power wired to that location.
More lights = more awesome
How is your plumbing? Something to think about while everything is torn up.
Research the appliances. From what I read the "pro" brands required a lot more maintenance and repair than consumer stuff.
TT, while I'm still in the planning stages myself, we have come to many of the same conclusions.
Bosch dishwashers are silly good. Having no heating element for drying takes some habit changes, like leaving the door open a crack if your washing plastic or wood items.
Messing around at an appliance shop here that invites you to do a little cooking the ranges I liked were thermador and bluestar. The burner shape seemed to contribute to more even heat and both had a good simmer. The thermador simmers by pulsing the flame, which makes a sound some find annoying. Just turn on your big ass hood and all will be fine.
Considerations: I'll be putting in a built-in instant hot water tap. It's awesome for coffee and tea. Also, installing a momentary switch by the sink for the disposal seems nice.
One place I'll be different from everyone is that I'll probably have stainless steel counters made. My wife isn't convinced, but I beat the hell out of my kitchen (bad habits formed in busy kitchens) and am used to the feel.
From an aesthetic standpoint, matched refrigerator and dishwasher fronts to the cabinets always caught my eye and is possible by most cabinet makers/contractors. Also as mentioned above, stainless counter prep areas are great for abuse and cleaning.
Have you settled on the sink and faucet? Check out the foot-actuated faucet add-ons. They let you use the regular faucet or turn it on/off with your foot. Some even connect to the dispose-all to run the water when it runs. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it's great to rinse things that require both hands to hold.
I can't believe this thread is here. So timely. The next 6 weeks or so are going to be total chaos in our house - new fridge, stove, (both GE) dishwasher (yeah, Bosch), island with soapstone countertop, and cabinets. Need to totally clear out all the stuff in the cabinets now, and figure out how to live without a kitchen for a few weeks.
I'm already starting to miss the rides I'm going to miss! But somebody else living here is going to be one happy lady!
Will you have soapstone counters AND Island or Granite Island? Wondering if I really need to worry about having quite different surface appearances.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas
*Instant Hot Water* <<< YES good one.
---- we had soapstone in home back in lexington ky..
so beautiful and even more-so when oiled & treated properly..
but..,
remember soapstone is not granite.., will not tolerate sharp objects nor dropped objects -- without marks left..
ronnie
Bosch dishwasher = Love it. Would buy it again.
New disposals are much quieter than 10-15 year old units.
Have you ever used / lived with the dbl door fridge up/freezer down? Have been in 3-4 week rentals with them and have never come to like them. Maybe with just the two of you around you'll manage to get both doors closed.
Thermador is running a special. Buy their cooktop and oven get the dishwasher and hood for free. Hard to say no. Their dishwasher is infact a Bosch.
Almost impossible to see soapstone displayed here. Might have to travel.
All of the "island" exhaust hoods were in the 600 cfm range and by code require a fresh air system installed...ouch.
ahhh hell.., igloo, well greased dutch oven, lakota hole well drafted, alum trash can with boiling water/suds hung from the lh pit & swipe a park picnic table/bench well initial carved..
no more decision problems, sooo-- on to the next chapter with a smile..,
ronnie
Exhaust hoods drawing 400cfm and under don't require make up air according to the 2009 IRC (International Residdntial Code). Ask your appliance supplier to do some calcs for the cooktop that you are using to confirm the volume requirement. If it's over 400cfm, start shopping for a make up air unit. The logic is that a large volume hood could backdraft your furnace, hot water heater, fireplace, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall
Make-Up Air Heaters
In theory is the operative phrase. It is an old house but I do understand the requirement. Will do my homework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsaunders
That makes sense.....Thermador is part BSH group. Bosch Siemens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall
If you want to see soapstone.....I can take you someplace to take a peek.
I love soapstone old man. Send me a note would love to learn. We visited one of the builders houses he is almost done with that had soapstone counters and a marble island. The contrast of colors looked great and makes a ton of sense for utility.
Slight change of plans. The Thermador "deal" would force me to buy their overpriced wall oven.
Bosch has a similar deal and I know their dishwashers are terrific. If anyone has insights for the cooktop/microwave please let me know. The cooktop reviews are good however the usual comments regarding stainless steel. It is a very nice design and has a monster center burner which is something I have got to have.
I'm laughing over the fact that all the high end refrigerators are the price of a small car and have TERRIBLE reviews. We'll get something like a Samsung thanks.
Actually prefer blue star to thermador. I looked at a Bosch induction range, but went in the total opposite direction and got an AGA.
Josh,
We went around the same merry -go-around. In terms of appliance family our best deal was kitchen aid, followed by GE and then bosch. If you have not considered Kitchen Aid please do so.
- Gas range with dual fuel (two) ovens
- Vent-A-Hood vent hood
- add 25% to estimated budget
- tell your significant other you love them (do it now and do it often).
Again, I really think that any cooktop needs at least one induction element for boiling. My gas top is great for wide bottom pans when frying/sauteeing, but having one pot that totally covers an electric (or induction) burner is MUCH quicker and heats the room MUCH less.
Something like this comes to mind:
HP5CI N/L » Highland
If you are considering Blue Star (i.e. open burner) would also suggest looking at Capital Culinarian. Lastly, might want to look at restaurant supply places that carry Bluestar commercial ranges...often times they can order the residential version for you (ships direct from Bluestar) at often significant savings. Also, if you're open to ordering online, Elite Appliance based out of Dallas often has good deals and they're willing to deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJPM44
If you replace your lower cabinets get ones that are drawers, the larger the better. Much easier to access all the oddly shaped pots and pans one accumulates. Also if you're going to do the big ass kitchen island with an equally heavy ass stone counter might be worth bracing the floor joists below it.
If you want a microwave in combo with wall oven, look at a drawer microwave:
Sharp Microwave Drawers: Convenient Microwave Drawer Ovens
Houston, thanks for the KitchenAid tip. This is based on performance and price yah? We are coming around to thinking a range inset to the island is less money, better performance and trends be d@mned.
Update: first bid came in nearly double the bottomline I expected. Good design, nice guy, excellent work and apparently he thinks we are morons. Wow, I was actually offended by this. Next!
We did a mini-kitchen update this summer. Went with a trio of Bosch appliances (with double rebate, one from Bosch and an one from Lowes which was a nice save). The existing kitchen layout doesn't have a lot of space for a big cooktop and uses a downdraft vent (rather than a hood). Went with the Bosch induction cooktop (220v) and LOVE it! Slight learning curve based on what we were coming from but hard to imagine anything better than this. Can run boost on both banks of burners (one on each side), plenty of room for a large wok and huge pots. Doesn't heat up the kitchen the way big gas burners can. Less need for massive exhaust when not loosing BTUs from the gas all over.
The Bosch downdraft exhaust (600cfm) with ind. cooktop JUST fit into the space we had to work with. Love both of them. Their dishwasher has also been fine, it replaced our many decades old KitchenAid. The quiet is amazing and so is the cleaning. That's a bunch of words to say don't eliminate induction for consideration and the Bosch / Lowes savings can take a bunch off the bottom line.
Fresh stone countertops around, bit of backsplash, kept the existing solid wood + cherry face cabinets. Just put on some new hardware and called it good.
edit
Pretty much the norm from the vast majority of the design build firms in the D.C. metro area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall
Yeah, its based what we felt was the best brand line based on price, performance and appearance. There was a good bundle rebate with Kitchen Aid too. We thought weakest point was the dishwasher. And believe me we have put that thing through the paces ... very good. All solid equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall
Regarding bidding/project costs-
I'm not sure if you have a project schedule in mind (as in, must be done before the holidays, etc), BUT, it may be advantageous for you to wait to get pricing until this winter, specifically January (after the holidays). Generally contractors and the construction trades in general are slow in the winter months. Right now it is nice outside and everyone is building like crazy, so labor is at a premium, especially as summer draws to a close and everyone is trying to get projects finished before cooler/wetter fall weather sets in. However, you have a nice (warm!) interior space renovation, so it would be desirable work to do in the winter from a contractor's standpoint, and you may get better pricing then as a result.
I'm getting ready to replace a 16 year old KitchenAid dishwasher that's used about every two days. The rack tines started to break over the past two years and the soap dispenser recently broke. Total cost of replacement parts is approaching $350 so I'm opting for a new unit and donating the old unit to Construction Junction. I believe that we got our money's worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by joosttx
Having worked on houses, this is excellent advice. Bids in winter, renovation in spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUdude
Attachment 84720
This kitchen came free with our apartment when we bought it.
I think the best thing you can do with a kitchen is open it up to the rest of the entertaining/living space in the house. That way if you have people over, everyone can go from kitchen to dining room to living room without having a wall in between. Keeps the cook happy, everyone can be involved in conversation, and just generally makes things move a lot more smoothly.
Second best thing is an island with eating space off to one end. I really like this island, and we eat here more than at the dining room table. The only bad thing is that the surface is stone, so any hot food put on the eating area surface immediately cools. Note the mat. Just makes things more comfortable. I would like to replace it with a cutting board quality maple surface some day. Need it for making pasta anyway, plus I think it looks cool juxtaposed with the slate.
Don't discount using a real artisan quality cabinet maker. Even some of the most expensive cabinets out there use laminated MDF for the cabinet body. Avoid MDF. It just doesn't hold up. Take the prices from the fancy kitchens and go get an estimate from a real cabinetmaker who uses high quality hardwood ply and/or wood. Wood with a clear satin finish looks great in a kitchen, it looks better than MDF when worn and can be touched up a lot more easily. Want color? Get them painted. The cabinets here are from a famous Italian maker, and I have to keep gluing down the bamboo paper that covers all the MDF. Several times we've looked at fancy furniture then compared it to what an artisan would charge and prices were equal and the work was better. Fatta a mano you know?
Also the slate (the gray surface on the island) is great, but the granite sucks. I definitely would have all slate (or whatever that is) and then the aforementioned wood surface.
That's a glass electric cooktop built into a slide-in Bosch electric range. Probably the worst thing I have ever cooked on, and the stove is also miserable. A fan runs no matter what setting is used. Sounds like an airplane. Makes it hard to cook and talk. We have a silent dishwasher and a noisy oven. And it is too big. This will get changed to a gas cooktop and a separate pro quality oven eventually. Don't assume that just because a manufacturer makes a nice dishwasher that they know beejeebus about making ovens or any other appliance for that matter.
Jake the island / table is brilliant.
The cabinets in this house are excellent (pay no attention to the walls and hood covering) because they would fit in just about any style of kitchen with adjustments to the finish. A lot of cabinets look very modern when flat panels are used in the doors, drawer faces are flat and flush, and there is no angle molding around the top. Straight lines, right angle corners, plain face and tops. Adolph Loos would approve. And so would a buyer who likes country kitchen look if you have it set up as mid-century modern. Change the pulls, add trim and put cows and chickens on the walls.
Maker of the cabinets is Amish Loft, just one of several real wood cabinet makers. But you can find local cabinet makers of this or even better quality.
We're house hunting right now so this topic is relevant to my interests.
Having lived in 4 different open plan places in the last 4 years, I highly recommend the open space concept, and have a few more opinions:
- if you are going to congregate/entertain around the center island or peninsula, avoid putting the sink or cooktop there unless it absolutely has to be so.
- my inlaws did the center island with slightly lower eating surface, like Jorn's photo above. awesome
- my folks just built the house they're retiring to- Wolf range and Kitchen-Aid oven/convection oven. My wife, a better indoor cook than I, is completely sold on both.
- if you are a coffee/tea snob, leave just a small stub of counter to one side or the other of the stove in order to house your grinder/kettle. even better, make your breakfast area one stop shopping and make sure to have 4 plugs so you can put your blender/vitamix there too.
- they make two-plug outlets that also house 2 USB charge ports in the same space. these are useful at the office/junk drawer end of the kitchen
- DEEP sinks!
My buddy in Prague had pull up outlets in the counter of his kitchen. You press and they pop up about an inch, then you pull them up and turn to lock in position. They have 4 outlets in each, so no lack of places to plug in. And when stowed, they fit flush to the counter surface with an actual piece of the counter material on top with a ring gasket that keeps (or seems to) water out. Very trick.