Martin / Zimmerman Trial Verdict

I can't say that I'm surprised that Zimmerman was acquitted. It sure sounded like he followed Martin, confronted him, had the tables turned, and was being pounded by a tougher opponent. So he pulled a gun and shot him, and a bad law will allow him to get away with his irresponsible behavior.

IMO this was a perfect storm of factors:

1) A law that allows you to shoot first and ask questions later.
2) A guy with a gun who was looking for trouble.
3) A young black man walking alone at night.

You have to wonder what would have happened with the police / in court if Martin had taken the gun and shot Zimmerman dead...

a (nother) sad day in the usa

I'm surprised that you guys would want to discuss this here. Or maybe, this thread will simply get locked when someone doesn't agree with the majority.

What evidence are you basing your opinions on? The real evidence of this case pointed to Zimmerman's story as being correct. The verdict reflected the evidence of the case.

Don't let misplaced guilt or hyper-political-correctness 'tell' you what to think. Exercise some honesty in your analysis of this case, as most of you already made up your mind the moment you heard the headline, long before any of the facts of the case were available.

I grew up around Sanford, I had an office there for a few years and lived there for a year after college. I'm both surprised and not surprised at the verdict. Murder 2, the original charge, was really not appropriate when you see how its written in FL and how the jury sees the instructions, but Manslaughter should have been a no brainier but i guess its hard to convict a guy when the only other withess is dead. Our Stand Your Ground law is seriously flawed and this trial just emboldened the few idiots who feel like packing a gun allows them to look for trouble. Our law effectively legalizes vigilantism. A local bike pal's wife served on the jury. I look forward to hearing what she has to say. I don't think overt racism played a part in the verdict, but Sanford has a history of Institutional racism and its sadly still very evident and not really something I want to talk about on a bike forum. These are the towns I grew up in, live and call home and it saddens me. I'm a gun owner and enthusiast myself but I don't like the idea that a gun can embolden the people who I least trust to use one responsibly and that institutional racism lets it happen.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

I grew up around Sanford,....... Our Stand Your Ground law is seriously flawed and this trial just emboldened the few idiots who feel like packing a gun allows them to look for trouble. Our law effectively legalizes vigilantism..

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For the record, Zimmerman's case was self-defense. 'Stand Your Ground' was not Zimmerman's defense. These are quite different things.

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Originally Posted by GAAP

I'm surprised that you guys would want to discuss this here. Or maybe, this thread will simply get locked when someone doesn't agree with the majority.

What evidence are you basing your opinions on? The real evidence of this case pointed to Zimmerman's story as being correct. The verdict reflected the evidence of the case.

Don't let misplaced guilt or hyper-political-correctness 'tell' you what to think. Exercise some honesty in your analysis of this case, as most of you already made up your mind the moment you heard the headline, long before any of the facts of the case were available.

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See the thing I always come back to when I read comments like yours that I always come back to is this:

You are saying that I am politically correct for thinking somethings wrong where if I am walking somewhere I have every right to be, notice some complete stranger following me, and I confront him, the follower has the right to use deadly force but I don't.

Because I never once read any of the 'Hey, you're pc for having an opinion different from mine folks' saying that if Trayvon had managed to kill Zimmerman he would also be innocent.

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Originally Posted by Matthew J

See the thing I always come back to when I read comments like yours that I always come back to is this:

You are saying that I am politically correct for thinking somethings wrong where if I am walking somewhere I have every right to be, notice some complete stranger following me, and I confront him, the follower has the right to use deadly force but I don't.

Because I never once read any of the 'Hey, you're pc for having an opinion different from mine folks' saying that if Trayvon had managed to kill Zimmerman he would also be innocent.

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No, not at all. I AM saying that you are pc because in your mind there was only one correct verdict in this trial - evidence, reality, trial be damned.

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Originally Posted by GAAP

No, not at all. I AM saying that you are pc because in your mind there was only one correct verdict in this trial, evidence, reality, trial be damned.

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I followed the trial. No one ever addressed the disconnect between the notion an innocent person walking where they had every right to be could not use self-defense against a person following them, but the instigator could.

In the civilized states, you start a fight, and you kill the other person when he gets the better of you, that's manslaughter. Following and confronting someone with no legal right to do so is clear instigating. Come to my neighborhood. I'll follow you around. Then you tell me what your non-PC response will be.

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Originally Posted by GAAP

For the record, Zimmerman's case was self-defense. 'Stand Your Ground' was not Zimmerman's defense. These are quite different things.

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Yes, I know the record well. They did retain the right to pull it out at any time and use it. If you lived here, you would know how stand your ground has changed the gun culture and the law itself was on trial here even though it wasn't used as a defense. Zimmerman was emboldened that night because he had a gun, because of stand your ground. Lots of folks are making this into their political hot potato, the issue of their day, but the reality is that this was a case where two idiots met up in the wrong place and one got shot and another should have never put himself in the position to use a gun, but our law allows for that. Come to old FL and understand what happened before that night and the weeks after. See how the gun culture has changed. I think its too easy to sit in TX and view this as ignorantly as the rest of the country through whatever media source. I know this place, I've lived here my whole life. I live two blocks from a city swimming pool that was paved over because blacks weren't going to swim with whites, I've swam in the now paved over Sanford pool as a kid because they weren't going to allow blacks to swim with whites there either. I know what side of the tracks you should belong depending on color. Martin was presumed guilty when Zimmerman first spotted him and again after the police arrived. This case is about a lot more than a couple of weeks in the courtroom. What you saw on TV or read was shaped by many events that were outside of the trial.

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Originally Posted by Matthew J

I followed the trial. No one ever addressed the disconnect between the notion an innocent person walking where they had every right to be could not use self-defense against a person following them, but the instigator could.

In the civilized states, you start a fight, and you kill the other person when he gets the better of you, that's manslaughter. Following and confronting someone with no legal right to do so is clear instigating. Come to my neighborhood. I'll follow you around. Then you tell me what your non-PC response will be.

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Where are you getting Zimmerman started a fight thing? Did you make it up?

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Originally Posted by Matthew J

. No one ever addressed the disconnect between the notion an innocent person walking where they had every right to be could not use self-defense against a person following them, but the instigator could..

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Define the type of 'self-defense' that you are speaking of. And help me understand what kind of self defense is legal to inflict on someone that is following you.

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Originally Posted by GAAP

For the record, Zimmerman's case was self-defense. 'Stand Your Ground' was not Zimmerman's defense. These are quite different things.

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This is correct. The stand your ground was not used by Zimmerman at all.

Also, our legal system is the best in the world. I try not to judge legal cases by what I read in the media.
Knowing the media is not always going to tell all of the facts, sometimes none of the facts. It's job is to get you to read.
So it will spin the story to get the most reader/watchers. The truth is MANY MANY times much different than what is reported.

Mr Zimmerman was tried and found not guilty by a jury of his peers. That hear all the facts in the case. Facts that were judged to be correct by a judge.
That is good enough for me. Our legal system may not be perfect, but it is the best. I have to except their decision.

IMO; There was a reason that Zimmerman was not charged until this thing became a political football. A child was killed, and the police investigation
thought there should not be charges brought. Hmmm.... I wonder why? Could be that they thought the evidence was not enough to warrant a charge?
Yet when the story became national, charges were brought. Strange indeed!!!

I don't know what happened that night, except a young man lost his life, and neither do any of you. We can all guess, by what we have read and heard, but it's just a guess. All we can do is believe in the system.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

but the reality is that this was a case where two idiots met up in the wrong place and one got shot .

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Maybe. Tragedy when anyone dies. It's a shame it happened.

An unarmed young man is shot having been tracked down by a vigilante. Oh, and he was black. This is justice in America. That's all I got.

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Originally Posted by Matthew J

. Come to my neighborhood. I'll follow you around. Then you tell me what your non-PC response will be

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Maybe go home? Maybe ask you what's up? Maybe call the police on my cell phone?

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Originally Posted by dbrk

An unarmed young man is shot having been tracked down by a vigilante. Oh, and he was black. This is justice in America. That's all I got.

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I'm sure that's all you got. Funny thing is, events like this usually can't be explained or understood using a total of 18 words.

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Originally Posted by GAAP

I'm sure that's all you got. Funny thing is, events like this usually can't be explained or understood using a total of 18 words.

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Is fuckyou one word?

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Originally Posted by GAAP

Maybe. Tragedy when anyone dies. It's a shame it happened.

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One of the things I think is interesting, and I say this as a gun owner and I've got a concealed carry permit is that if I had walked around the corner the instant before Martin was shot and seen the gun I could have legally killed Zimmerman because I could have seen that Martin's life was in danger. This is a bizarre law. The trial was what is was. I mostly read about it but I never thought the case had a chance at murder 2 and I was unsure he was technically even guilty because stand your ground could maybe have been effectively used as a defense. There is a lot going on with this case, with the law, and how it all went down. I don't think people have a real clue just by watching TV or listening to talk radio.

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Originally Posted by dbrk

Is fuckyou one word?

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No, and sorry if my post came across rude. I tried to respond to your post in the basic, terse style in which your post was written.

I feel strongly that good folks can disagree and still be respectful.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

One of the things I think is interesting, and I say this as a gun owner and I've got a concealed carry permit is that if I had walked around the corner the instant before Martin was shot and seen the gun I could have legally killed Zimmerman because I could have seen that Martin's life was in danger. This is a bizarre law. The trial was what is was. I mostly read about it but I never thought the case had a chance at murder 2 and I was unsure he was technically even guilty because stand your ground could maybe have been effectively used as a defense. There is a lot going on with this case, with the law, and how it all went down. I don't think people have a real clue just by watching TV or listening to talk radio.

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On this we will agree. I lived in Fl when the law was passed. I too had a CWP. I also spent a god deal of money with a very good legal counselor on what it meant.
It was his opinion that the law would be challenged at the supreme court level.

I would also strongly agree that most people don't have a clue from what they read/hear.

As I said above, I will except our legal system and process.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

There is a lot going on with this case, with the law, and how it all went down. I don't think people have a real clue just by watching TV or listening to talk radio.

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I remember when Newspapers & TV news were a sacred institutions in this country. Its all become just entertainment, to get ratings, to sell advertisement.