Shop Layout Wisdom

Hey gang,
Been lurking in and out of here for a while, but thought I'd seek out the collective wisdom for my next challenge.
My wife and I just bought a house with a 24'x24' "two-car" garage where I will be setting up my shop. It's a blank slate--I'll be adding a 100 amp service, insulation and drywall and have the whole thing to myself. My current shop is a hallway shaped 10' x 30' space, so I'm challenged by not only the increase in space but the new shape of the space. Since there is a window on the back wall I'm planning to locate my main work area back there. I currently have my Anvil Fixture and vise bench mounted, but would like to move them both off the bench. The fixture will go on a rolling stand and the vise on a floor-mounted pedestal. I've also got a park workstand that will be floor-mounted as well. Here is the first challenge: where to mount the stand and vise in relation to the bench where most of my tools are stored. I'm starting to think that the vise should stay on the bench to keep it close to the tools, but I like the idea of being able to work all the way around it on a pedestal. To those of you with pedestal mounted vises, how do you work? I know that some people like rolling carts. Is that the way to go?

Any other common wisdom on shop layout? I've been working with a Google Sketchup model. If anyone wants to see it, let me know.

I'll get some current pictures when I'm at the shop later.

Thanks!

-Tony

I'm a huge fan of not having to take more then two stems between operations.

My essential space is set up so that I can mill tubes, rotate to the right a step to debur at the bench, rotate again to load up the jig, then one last time to check alignment. Its about 2 steps across to go straight from the alignment table to the bench. I am working on setting up an assembly and packing "station" as its own work area, but for now I just do it in the middle by dragging in a folding repair stand.

I have about the same amount of space in a similar lay out- my shelving, storage, desk etc are on the outside of all of that, closest to the areas they best serve.

I agree with Eric. Having your "stations" as close to each other as possible and in an order that minimizes the movement and time needed to complete your work is a great benefit. Lets you concentrate on the task rather than where the tools and materials are that you need to do the work.

IMO if you are a one-man shop, there should only be enough room for one man to work, no matter how big the space is.

More vise more choice. If you make things far apart in your shop you will get some excercise. My layout is a 4' x 8' steel table in the middle and my tools and fixtures are on the wall as a perimeter to the table. I can turn around from any tool and put the work on the table. Table has park stands welded to it on both ends and vise and arbor press are on one end of the table. Jig on wheels.
Welder lives on shelf built in under table next to tube storage. Nice garage by the way.

I try to keep messy operations like grinding and welding away from the machines

I've got the park tool stand and the framejig suspended from the ceiling, the framejig is on rollers and can be moved from the bench to the welding corner

for me
it is about work at the bench
turn to my right and work to the main fixture
back to bench
turn the other way to the left
and I am at the alignment table
Directly behind me when facing the bench
is my 100 year old brazing stand
So I turn 180 degrees from the bench and I am at the brazing stand
The trolly with the punters tubes is behind me, but next to the fixture
Think about what you do most

Machines for cutting tubes , lathes etc can be where they fit best.

I am very much with Marten. I have made a big effort to get ALL abrasives out of the area with the machines. I am fortunate to have space and have a "dirt room" but I feel everyone should make an effort to keep power abrasives out of the same room with machines and even precision fixtures. Short of the pedestal mounted vise which gets files and shop roll all abrasives are out of the room. When I finally moved the belt/disc sander out I REALLY noticed a huge difference. This discussion promted me to finally get better lighting in the dirt room. Here it is before better lighting. Maybe by friday it will have more illumination!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/...30deb19f_b.jpg

-Drew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pereiracycles

Hey gang,
Been lurking in and out of here for a while, but thought I'd seek out the collective wisdom for my next challenge.
My wife and I just bought a house with a 24'x24' "two-car" garage where I will be setting up my shop. It's a blank slate--I'll be adding a 100 amp service, insulation and drywall and have the whole thing to myself. My current shop is a hallway shaped 10' x 30' space, so I'm challenged by not only the increase in space but the new shape of the space. Since there is a window on the back wall I'm planning to locate my main work area back there. I currently have my Anvil Fixture and vise bench mounted, but would like to move them both off the bench. The fixture will go on a rolling stand and the vise on a floor-mounted pedestal. I've also got a park workstand that will be floor-mounted as well. Here is the first challenge: where to mount the stand and vise in relation to the bench where most of my tools are stored. I'm starting to think that the vise should stay on the bench to keep it close to the tools, but I like the idea of being able to work all the way around it on a pedestal. To those of you with pedestal mounted vises, how do you work? I know that some people like rolling carts. Is that the way to go?

Any other common wisdom on shop layout? I've been working with a Google Sketchup model. If anyone wants to see it, let me know.

I'll get some current pictures when I'm at the shop later.

Thanks!

-Tony

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Congrats on the new digs Tony! New shops are always a ton of fun because you have a blank canvas. I don't have any specific suggestions but one thing I believe is that a shop should be dynamic. I'm always tweaking and improving my shop. Small things can make really big differences. Come to think of it, I do have a suggestion. Run electic in surface conduit so you aren't restrained by it. Otherwise have fun and post pictures when you get it set up.

at 576 sq. feet {my shop is 18 x 30} you are gonna fill it really quick! a couple things i like: jig on rolling fixture. you can get it the F out of the way when you are not using it - us fillet guys spend as much time in it as out of it. Put in more windows. you deserve it after your last digs, man! Keep bike storage out of the shop. Don't put the grinder facing the stereo. Make shit so you can take it apart easy - you likely will. benches come & go. Get vises & C-lamp them to see where you need to work before bolting them down as well as your big "main vise." that's a start. i do love my garage door in summer...........Congrats!

Tony,

Rock on man, congrats on the new digs...whenever I saw pics of your current space, I was empathetic for ya as it brought visions of old school masters toiling away in dark, focused confines.

One thing I like in a shop layout is flow. I hate moving back and forth across the shop floor for differing steps of the process. In that vein, I have recently just got done moving things around a bit, reorganizing so that the material moves around the shop in a logical process.

My main machine shop area is 20x22 and this is how it is layed out...

- I have a roll up door that the large deliveries come into (tubing, raw fixture steel, etc)
- immediately next to it is the tubing rack and material storage
- a cold saw with material conveyor for cutting to length is adjacent
- next to it is the degreasing tank for cleaning it up post cut
- then a surface plate for marking tubing bows/butts/ends
- then the lathe for truing and deburring
- the two mills for mitering/shaping
- a vertical belt sander for cleaning up the mitered edges
- a rolling fixture that moves in front of the mills and over to the weld table
- a welding station for tig and brazing
- then the alignment table.
- Centered in the room is a large bench that holds tools, fixtures, and allows for a work space within reach of most of the action.

To decrease fiddle fart time, I've found it is efficient to locate necessary hand tool stations with the related processes, so you are never far from the required tool. I typically hang or mount those pieces on the wall space so that I can reach it immediately.

I have the luxury of having a separate room for the paint booth and mixing station, a separate office space, and another space for actually bike wrenching and other dirty work, such as the blast cabinet and bending operations with support materials. I've also set aside a counter right next to the main man door for shipping...it's nice to have the pile located so the UPS guy does not have to traipse through the shop to get the outgoing parcels.

Some tips...one thing I found useful during layout was to make scaled cardboard cutouts of the items you want to bring into the shop and place them around on the floor to gauge the space utilized. This helps with electrical placement as well as you can anticipate where the outlet needs will be. It also alleviates surprises down the road when you start to move in your equipment and find that what you had on paper may not translate into reality.

Steve pointed out windows...working alone is a tough road to hoe, so any visual contact with the outside is spirit lifting. It sucks going into the shop before the sun rises, working all day, and leaving when the moon is up...ya need some rays to keep the enthusiasm so place lots of them for natural light.

I would also suggest that you take the opportunity to look hard at your infrastructure...make sure you have water and drains where you need them and sufficient insulation to keep things comfortable during the cold months. Your electrical panel and any phase converter should be easy to access in an emergency with a central kill switch. After losing a shop to a fire in 2000, I can tell you that a "residential" sprinkler system for a space of your size is cheap and may be something worth considering...most are easy to plumb and two heads would cover your space requirements.

Some patience and forethought with layout will pay big dividends in comfort and efficiency down the road, even then, you'll still have "damn, I should have thought of that" moments.

cheers,

rody

i like to have my bench where the most natural light is, and that drives everything. that's my absolute main concern, as i hate working with lights on when i don't have to.

i suppose i'm a little different in that i like walking around the shop to do things; i like having as much open space as possible in between stations. if i were to spend 10 hours standing (more or less) within the same 15 sq/ft work area, i think i'd lose it.

good luck tony, can't wait to see it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cicli polito

i like to have my bench where the most natural light is, and that drives everything. that's my absolute main concern, as i hate working with lights on when i don't have to.

i suppose i'm a little different in that i like walking around the shop to do things; i like having as much open space as possible in between stations. if i were to spend 10 hours standing (more or less) within the same 15 sq/ft work area, i think i'd lose it.

good luck tony, can't wait to see it!

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You & me both. I hate feeling like I'm crowded (probably because my shops are so crowded), and used to be big on the Japanese cell layout. Now, I don't mind taking the extra steps and enjoy having plenty of elbow room to work. When you're smithing, it's important to have your shit close together since heat is your timer, but for building bikes, give me a nice open layout and plenty of room to move around.

+ a million on the light too. I hate dark shops. White walls, white ceilings, light colored floors with lots of natural light and full spectrums when natural lighting is absent.

Another vote for lots of natural light at the main bench. I am also setting up my new place, and I knew this location would be where I want the main bench.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...p/100_4496.jpg

The bench is in place in front of the windows with a tool board in easy reach.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/q...p/100_4614.jpg

A stand mounted vertical belt sander is now where the trash barrel was in this picture. When I eventually get a lathe, it will go along the wall to the right of the tool board. I'm still messing around with the placement of the my upright for my wall-mounted park stand. Once I get it dialed, I'll bolt it to the floor. I welded some 2.5" x 1.5" rectangular tube to an 8" square plate. It's really rigid and the materials were reasonably priced.

Thanks guys, I've been away from here for a couple days working on the shop. It's fully insulated now and I'll probably finish hanging drywall tonight. A buddy came by yesterday and put a second window in. (Two windows=HUGE upgrade!!) Hoping to drop some skylights next year when i have some more money and a better feel for the space.
Next week will be electricity time. Planning to surface mount everything so it is easy to move around. I think I have a pretty good plan at this point, but will try to keep it flexible until I get a good feel for it. Can't wait to have natural light!
Thanks again for all the advice.
-Tony

been holding back, but will chime in now. skylights go east or south and you'll need shades for summer, but love every drop of sunlight in winter. passive solar and all. my 14x28 has two skylights, southward main doors and two windows on that side. small window and metal door on east side and nadda on north/west. if the sun is above the horizon, no need for wattage.

thinking about it is the main thing. you do stuff different than jimbo-so slightly different plans.

i'm still in a lull (for fundslow) waiting to buy the wire/boxes to wire mine up. plenty of time to think.

two-step rule is good because i get distracted on that third step.

so onto very important aspects (i'm trying to use freddy's flow) speakers in the rafters. pandora/mp3 into amp into tunage.

one of my vise mounts is a portable pedestal. it's still in the works and i'll post pics, but i like where it's going. the trick is to have a substantial, but round base. i bought the round part for 15 cents per pound at the salvage yard. it's 108#. then the post plus the vice and it'll be around 200# altogether. (details with the pics--if i like it)

follows the "mobility rule". don't nail stuff to the walls or bolt to the floors until you've gone through several months and a few re-orgs.

cheers

if i ever do paint, it'll be a separate building yo.