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Thread: Carbon forks vs Pre-Fab forks on Custom Rigs

  1. #21
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by acotts View Post
    And until a builder can convince me otherwise, I see that bike being painted black, weighing about 17 pounds, having a long stem, lots of drop on the bars, corners like a squirrel, and has a carbon fuckin' fork.
    I ordered my Zank to be a race bike first and foremost. Modeled upon my Look, which is without doubt a race bike. The Zank will have a steel fork and I do not see it as a performance compromise in any way. At least not at the level I ride at now. But having seen fast races from the inside of the group I still like the highest level performance equipment. I don't think the steel fork will in any way diminish that performance.

    I own three bikes with carbon forks. They're fine too. My Serotta CIII is clearly a custom bike built around the fork as it was sold with the Serotta O2 (Ouzo Pro) fork.
     

  3. #23
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    Default why not?

     

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by acotts View Post
    For the record, the Edge was AN EXAMPLE.
    IME it should be THE example. The Edge fork saved my current frame- handling wise- and will definitely be a foundation upon which my next custom frame will be built.
     

  5. #25
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    I know the introduction of pre-fab forks has a lot to do with cutting down on labor and imperfections for LARGE builders, but is it outrageous to say that carbon forks are - lighter, stronger, track better, and are perhaps more compliant? For all out race performance purposes, can anyone say that the best steel fork trumps the best carbon fork. And if so, why?

    All of Richards 'cross machines, for example, have steel forks. Is it that you believe steel has superior properties to carbon? I can't imagine your steel cross forks are some really odd rake that is unavailable, but maybe it's simply about fit, which is the highest concern.
     

  6. #26
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    All my bikes have a 43mm rake. It is the one and only thing upon which I insist. It is non-negotiable.

    p.s. I ♥ RedTurbo.
    GO!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I know the introduction of pre-fab forks has a lot to do with cutting down on labor and imperfections for LARGE builders, but is it outrageous to say that carbon forks are - lighter, stronger, track better, and are perhaps more compliant? For all out race performance purposes, can anyone say that the best steel fork trumps the best carbon fork. And if so, why?

    All of Richards 'cross machines, for example, have steel forks. Is it that you believe steel has superior properties to carbon? I can't imagine your steel cross forks are some really odd rake that is unavailable, but maybe it's simply about fit, which is the highest concern.
    is this for me atmo?
     

  8. #28
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    Rake is important. So are many other measurements. It's the sum of the measurements that matters.
     

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post

    war is declared atmo -
    YouTube - Bugs Bunny - This Means War
    "SHUT UP LEGS"

  10. #30
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    I'll blow my own horn here just a bit and say that I feel 100% sure that I can make a steel fork that rides, handles, and to my eye at least, looks better than any carbon fork. I can't make a steel fork as light as a light carbon fork and for that reason a very small number of my lightweight JKS models leave here with a Reynolds Ouzo Pro. A small number of folks are willing to give up a bit on ride quality and handling to get the weight reduction. FWIW the JKS steel fork is the best I offer and is an upcharge over the carbon fork. That said about 99% of my bikes go out the door with a handmade steel fork.

    I do not as a policy substitute a carbon fork for a steel fork on my "normal" offerings and I don't build frames to match a carbon fork of the riders choosing. If I did I couldn't control the ride and handling of the bike. With my JKS I tested the ride extensively of a number of forks to get as close as I could to what I consider to be ideal and in the end picked the good ol' Ouzo Pro.

    I think if you want the best a builder has to offer you should tell him/her to make their best stuff and if you get a carbon fork then there you go. I can say that for many of us builder that you'd get a steel fork.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I know the introduction of pre-fab forks has a lot to do with cutting down on labor and imperfections for LARGE builders, but is it outrageous to say that carbon forks are - lighter, stronger, track better, and are perhaps more compliant? For all out race performance purposes, can anyone say that the best steel fork trumps the best carbon fork. And if so, why?
    I don't know if I'd use the word outrageous but I would use the word inaccurate. Carbon forks are lighter. I'll give you that one. Stronger? Define strength. Stronger sometimes and weaker sometimes. Track better? Since tracking is more of a function of alignment than material used I don't see how that can be claimed. I've seen lots of crooked carbon forks and and I've seen plenty of crooked steel forks. The nice thing is you can make the steel fork aligned. Not really true of carbon. Compliant? How? Think of it this way. If you run over a 2mm tall bump, the tire deflects over the bump and the front end rises a fraction of the total height of the bump. Lets say 1mm. Regardless of the material the fork is made of the front end will rise the same amount. Where does compliance come into play?

    Now I'm not knocking carbon forks. I just don't like hypebole. As to the OP, see my original post. Some builders will embrace your input about the fork choice. Viewing it as a component. Some builders won't view the fork as a component and it's not open for discussion. There's no right or wrong. It's up to the individual. So when you ask if it's counter productive to say which fork you want there is no answer. Some builders will embrace it and some will find it counter productive. There's no bad guy here. Find the builder you want to build you a bike.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Goodrich View Post
    "...I don't know if I'd use the word outrageous but I would use the word inaccurate. Carbon forks are lighter. I'll give you that one. Stronger? Define strength. Stronger sometimes and weaker sometimes. Track better? Since tracking is more of a function of alignment than material used I don't see how that can be claimed. I've seen lots of crooked carbon forks and and I've seen plenty of crooked steel forks. The nice thing is you can make the steel fork aligned. Not really true of carbon. Compliant? How? Think of it this way. If you run over a 2mm tall bump, the tire deflects over the bump and the front end rises a fraction of the total height of the bump. Lets say 1mm. Regardless of the material the fork is made of the front end will rise the same amount. Where does compliance come into play?

    Now I'm not knocking carbon forks. I just don't like hypebole. As to the OP, see my original post. Some builders will embrace your input about the fork choice. Viewing it as a component. Some builders won't view the fork as a component and it's not open for discussion. There's no right or wrong. It's up to the individual. So when you ask if it's counter productive to say which fork you want there is no answer. Some builders will embrace it and some will find it counter productive. There's no bad guy here. Find the builder you want to build you a bike..."
    Outstanding!
    Especially the last sentence.
     

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    I'll blow my own horn here just a bit and say that I feel 100% sure that I can make a steel fork that rides, handles, and to my eye at least, looks better than any carbon fork. I can't make a steel fork as light as a light carbon fork and for that reason a very small number of my lightweight JKS models leave here with a Reynolds Ouzo Pro. A small number of folks are willing to give up a bit on ride quality and handling to get the weight reduction. FWIW the JKS steel fork is the best I offer and is an upcharge over the carbon fork. That said about 99% of my bikes go out the door with a handmade steel fork.

    I do not as a policy substitute a carbon fork for a steel fork on my "normal" offerings and I don't build frames to match a carbon fork of the riders choosing. If I did I couldn't control the ride and handling of the bike. With my JKS I tested the ride extensively of a number of forks to get as close as I could to what I consider to be ideal and in the end picked the good ol' Ouzo Pro.

    I think if you want the best a builder has to offer you should tell him/her to make their best stuff and if you get a carbon fork then there you go. I can say that for many of us builder that you'd get a steel fork.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Dave

    Dave, Curt (and others)

    Thanks for the responses. That is what I was looking for.

    I appreciate it.
    Last edited by acotts; 11-10-2008 at 06:06 PM.
    we are about to break the surly bonds of gravity and punch the face of God!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    is this for me atmo?
    Sure. Please take a crack at it.

    Thanks everyone.
     

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Sure. Please take a crack at it.

    Thanks everyone.
    is this for me atmo?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    I know the introduction of pre-fab forks has a lot to do with cutting down on labor and imperfections for LARGE builders, but is it outrageous to say that carbon forks are - lighter, stronger, track better, and are perhaps more compliant? For all out race performance purposes, can anyone say that the best steel fork trumps the best carbon fork. And if so, why?

    All of Richards 'cross machines, for example, have steel forks. Is it that you believe steel has superior properties to carbon? I can't imagine your steel cross forks are some really odd rake that is unavailable, but maybe it's simply about fit, which is the highest concern.
    i don't use CF forks for the same reason i don't use CF rear stay assemblies or
    have my frames made by maxway - i'm the framebuilder atmo. forks-as-SKUs is
    a fairly recent phenomenon and a true stepchild of the cycling industry's growth
    into a subset of the sporting goods world. if i relinquish control of any part of
    my manufacture, it's most likely due to market pressure and or manufacturing
    costs. thus far i have set up boundaries which keep me immune from these.
    i have often said that buying into the whole CF (or any material...) fork is like
    sending up a white flag. thanks. but no thanks. atmo i'm steadfast in my opinion
    that framebuilders/framebuilding lives outside the lines, and that making decisions
    that result in forks as accessories is for others, not us. when i believe that someone
    besides myself can do a better job of deciding where the front wheel should be
    on a frame i make, or how it should ride (or even look), i'll turn the lights outmo.

    ps i just lost 4 more friends atmo.
     

  16. #36
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    Think of it this way, you're having a suit custom made on Saville Row,
    but handed the tailor some pants you got at the Gap.

    Scott G.
    nb, I rode the Bates tonight, easily the wackiest fork ever put on a bike.
    Last edited by Scott G.; 11-10-2008 at 08:26 PM.
     

  17. #37
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    Personally, I don't see the issue as black and white.

    Dario specs most of his bikes with a reynolds fork: that's good enough for me.
    Richard wouldn't think of using a reynolds fork: that's good enough for me.

    If I was buying a Richard Sachs, it would have a Sachs made fork.
    If I was buying a Pegoretti, it would have a Reynolds fork.

    Something that interests me, is like what started this thread:
    a bike like a 953/XCR bike, maybe a seatmast, with an Edge fork,
    built with some race wheels, and a nice kit. It would be interesting to feel
    that you're giving away nothing to a carbon 'wonderbike'. That said,
    the compromise in weight/performance to a lugged steel bike is so small,
    imho, that if that's what you wanted, then go for it.

    To what Mr. Kirk said about the ride quality of steel... I have to agree.
    My Kirk has an amazingly smooth ride, and handles like a dream.
    It's not light... but really, so what? It's the ride.

    -g
    Last edited by GrantM; 11-10-2008 at 08:29 PM.
     

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    Personally, I don't see the issue as black and white.


    -g
    the issue isn't black and white, it's green atmo.
     

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    the issue isn't black and white, it's green atmo.
    I'm guessing you are talking Al Gore green are you?

    dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    I'm guessing you are talking Al Gore green are you?

    dave

    no, i think he means mo green, right?
     

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