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Thread: bike shit fit

  1. #141
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    One thing to keep in mind here... In order for the experienced eye and hand to do anything for the rider, the rider must be open to suggestions. This has not always been the case when I've made suggestions to people.
    La Cheeserie!

  2. #142
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    As a short addendum: fittings / fit adjustments MUST be part of a bike sale, MUST be part of the deal ... ie. free. We've seen LBS sales w/o fittings so many times. It makes us sick. And not just fittings. For inexperienced cyclists, a decent sit-down and discussion of basic operation of the bike is a must as well. How to shift and brake, why shifting is important and how it helps. Basic theory. If we want return customers, more and happier riders, we need to get this stuff right.

    This is why we include our fittings with the orders we take. Since we have to do them to create an appropriate design, it's included. Simple. On the other hand, it is not our business to do fittings in order to design frames for other builders. Fair warning.
    Tom Kellogg
    Rides bikes, makes 'em too.
    Spectrum-Cycles.com
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    Steel Cross, X-7, Crank Bros, Concour Lite, Nemesis, Grifo
    Steel Piste, D-A Piste, PD-7400, Concour lite, Zipp 404
    http://kapelmuurindependent.be


    Shortest TFC Member (5'6 3/4") & shrinking

  3. #143
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    One thing to keep in mind here... In order for the experienced eye and hand to do anything for the rider, the rider must be open to suggestions. This has not always been the case when I've made suggestions to people.
    Ok' I'll start listening to you rather than pretending to listen. But the offer only applies to advice given in person.:)
     

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    Cool Re: bike shit fit

    I love the smiley face emoticon.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    I really agree with what Josh is saying.

    I have been working hard for the last 8-10 year (I've worked at a shop for more then 15) to become a better "bike fitter". During this time I have been asked 100s of times what "system" I use and I have had a ton of conversations with co-managers and shop owners about the cost of fits and what technology(s) we should have. I continue to say and believe that the cost of fits shouldn't be $200+ and you don't need lasers and other crap to do a fit. I have a Calfee fit bike, a trainer and a few other tools and I truly believe that I can get someone in the correct position (for them) as well as anyone. And it won't take 3+ hours, cost you $200 and you can keep your shirt on.
    And honestly, why do I think I am a good fitter, or will be someday? I have been riding (and racing) everyday since I was 12. Sadly there is not substitute for experience, racing, riding and fitting/seeing people on bikes.

    The business of bike fit is getting out of control!

  6. #146
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by ineff View Post
    The business of bike fit is getting out of control!
    It's us against them atmo.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Why shouldn't it cost $200+? It requires a lot of experience and/ or time and/ or views that the rider doesn't have. Folks are willing to pay $200 for a derailleur...$200 on tires....what's going to be more beneficial? Why should a fitter give away his time and knowledge?

    You know what helps a fitter? Confidence. If that requires the use of a system, so be it. From my experience, no one has the right answer all the time for every person.
     

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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Is there an app for fitting atmo?

  9. #149
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by -Dustin View Post
    Why shouldn't it cost $200+? It requires a lot of experience and/ or time and/ or views that the rider doesn't have. Folks are willing to pay $200 for a derailleur...$200 on tires....what's going to be more beneficial? Why should a fitter give away his time and knowledge?

    You know what helps a fitter? Confidence. If that requires the use of a system, so be it. From my experience, no one has the right answer all the time for every person.
    When you buy a suit, does the tailor just throw cloths at you? "Oh... you wanted a suit that fits? Sure, that will be 250$ extra."
    Support your local bike shop.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    I've attended TooTall and Tom Kellogg's training camp on three occasions. Once for the full deal and two other times for a day or two, work permitting. I'd trust either of those guys to make adjustments to how I sit on my bike and neither offered any words one way or another.

    The funny thing about these camps is that half or more of the riders are riding Spectrums and they pretty much all look comfortable and natural on those bikes. Hmmmm....... He might be onto something. It doesn't always take a 'system' but it might take lots of trial and error and years of riding to get a good eye.

    Most of the builders and talkers here on this forum have a lot of experience riding hard and racing and building bikes for customers who seem to come back over and over again.

    Oh, and one more thing.... Looking at TooTall's Spectrum right next to TK's Spectrum is pretty interesting. And both riders look great on them. They could hardly be more apart on size. There's at least a foot of height difference between these riders.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    When you buy a suit, does the tailor just throw cloths at you? "Oh... you wanted a suit that fits? Sure, that will be 250$ extra."
    Not much of a tailor atmo - maybe a decent sewer, or an expert on color theory and worsted. But if he's making a suit, it has to fit. That's one complete task there.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    When you buy a suit, does the tailor just throw cloths at you? "Oh... you wanted a suit that fits? Sure, that will be 250$ extra."
    Most people don't buy suits from tailors. If you're buying off-the-rack, then yes you generally* pay for alterations.




    * "generally" meaning "i'm sure there are exceptions, you really don't have to list them"
    michael catano humble frameworks
    chicago, il, usa merci

  13. #153
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    When you buy a suit, does the tailor just throw cloths at you? "Oh... you wanted a suit that fits? Sure, that will be 250$ extra."
    To extend this analogy; when I got married I bought a suit off the rack for something like 500 and it looked really good, I then paid an amazing tailor not quite $250 and ended up with what looked like 2k suit.

    I don’t think the fitter analogy is far off, if you’re buying a custom bike or something new from a 'proper' shop fit should be included but I can’t think of a better upgrade for an existing bike than making it fit
     

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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    When selling a new bike a shop should make sure it fits, this can be done with simple observation of the person test riding the bikes. I charge another $75 for the hour I will spend making tweaks and getting it "finished up" for them.
    $75-80hr is our normal hourly labor rate.

    Have an issue that you want help with? Depending on the issue that will cost you $65 (cleats and seat) to $150 for a full (re)fitting.

    I charge these rates because they make sense to me and I don't have to pay a monthly fee or cover my $20k fitting system.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    ineff - That's how I spell R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Fits the model I'm touting. Well done.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    The shop at which I am paid to do fits charges a $125 upcharge with a new bike purchase that covers my time (I'm an IC, not an employee) as well as any necessary component swaps (saddle/stem/bars/post/tape) and the labor to install said components. For walk-ins we charge $195; it still covers the labor on component swaps/upgrades but the parts themselves are not included. I think it's a good value for the price, we have a pleasant space that's separate from the retail floor, there's coffee/booze, etc, etc. We don't use any retul/motion capture stuff, and I imagine that keeps the cost down. Ballpark saddle/stem height/bar width adjustments/recommendations are (and should always be) free.

    I have a lot of opinions about whether or not a fit is ever necessary and who a person should probably trust to do a fit, but I've also learned that keeping my mouth shut about how other people spend their money is generally a good idea.

    FWIW, I'm aware of my limits, honest about my experience, and quick to refer people to PTs/actual medical professionals/trainers/etc when they have acute issues that fall outside the realm of my own knowledge. I guess I would hope that most folks who are working in this niche service take a similar approach and attitude - I think I have a fairly good reputation in the city for the work I do and I would chalk that largely up to being a generally personable human and not purporting a bike fit to be anything other than what it is or capable of achieving anything more than it can.
    michael catano humble frameworks
    chicago, il, usa merci

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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    i had no idea what my fit was, thought i did --- after a frank pepe's pizza in new haven, a short rental buick ride with a brother to a welcome smile, another righteous upstairs smile, a small bundle of fur & a kitty purr in front on a bench at the place of fire --- & it fits..

    ronnie with that smiley face emoticon..
     

  18. #158
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    Is there an app for fitting atmo?
    Why yes, there is an app for that.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...efitment&hl=en
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
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    In Before the Lock

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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Bike Fast Fit is your own personal ReTul for the iPhone. It's not a fitter per se but fun to play around with on a snowy day in February.
     

  20. #160
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    I've been coaching a small collegiate cycling team. At first I was anxious because I'm a right-brain guy when it comes to this pursuit, and not conversant in watt meters and such. My training programs were always a framework, a suggestion.

    The reality is that most of these cyclists need a boatload of basic help on how to sit on, pedal, shift, brake, and steer the bike. Some of the fits are so awful it may take a season or more to get them right. Particularly the small women, somehow they're in a freeride position aboard a drop-bar bike. All of them came from a shop somewhere.

    How receptive they are to changes is a huge variable, not everybody is teachable/coachable.

    Lok is dead nuts on precision vs accuracy. +/- 1mm is ridiculous for a parameter that's an inch off.

    So we start with a few tweaks and begin moving in the right direction. Measurements and formulas are useful for a baseline. And it helps to have access to a collection of handlebars, and to be good at wrapping bar tape, because there are some really bizarre bars out there (and a lot of kids on too-wide ones).

    Oh, and thanks to my old club for taking that 14-year-old kid, slamming the stem all the way down and the saddle all the way back on the rails. I gotta get that kid out on a ride.
    Tdd Hllnd

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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