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Thread: bike shit fit

  1. #101
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Nonsense. Bartoli is pre-compact steerer, the difference in bar drop is small, but the diference in saddle to steerer drop is huge. There are tons of pictures on Fignon and the way he is positioned is completely different than Bartoli (who is much more alike Lemond, who also sat deep)

    Fignon has crooked arms here to get his back flat. Whereas Bartoli extends his arms down. And yes, the crank positions are quite similar, twelve oclock.

    fignon_ITT_1984_giro.jpg

    And riddle me this, you imply that Lemond and Fignon both had a similar fit? Tchmil with his hands on the bars somehow is similar to all the others in the drop?

    Quite simply put there are more than one way to sit good on a bike.
     

  2. #102
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3c View Post
    Look at the pic of Eddy; look at his arms; they are often a telling factor- how many of you have that much elbow bend when you ride on the hoods?
    That's indeed telltale. Check out Mr Musseeuw riding behind Tschmil. Notice he extends his arms in the drops and still has a flat back? Now for contrast check out the elbow bend of Hinault when in the drops.

    Considering both guys rode a bike quite a bit more successful than either of us, who is going to pick and choose between their fit's?
     

  3. #103
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Envision Eddy's bike with the required amount of spacers were it a threadless steerer; at least 3-4cm of spacers! Imagine the comments here; "nice bike but slam that stem"
     

  4. #104
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    -There is an "idealized" position on a road bike, as displayed by most great champions.
    -People's bikes should fit them for use in the real world.

    Why treat these ^ as contradictory? Or divisive??
    Vive la difference atmo imho.
     

  5. #105
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    Nonsense. Bartoli is pre-compact steerer, the difference in bar drop is small, but the diference in saddle to steerer drop is huge. There are tons of pictures on Fignon and the way he is positioned is completely different than Bartoli (who is much more alike Lemond, who also sat deep)

    Fignon has crooked arms here to get his back flat. Whereas Bartoli extends his arms down. And yes, the crank positions are quite similar, twelve oclock.

    fignon_ITT_1984_giro.jpg

    And riddle me this, you imply that Lemond and Fignon both had a similar fit? Tchmil with his hands on the bars somehow is similar to all the others in the drop?

    Quite simply put there are more than one way to sit good on a bike.
    Bartoli rode shallow drop bars ( like the old 3ttt TDF shape), Fignon deep drop bars ( like the 3ttt Merckx)

    The picture is a bad example - Fignon's just returning to the saddle after sprinting!
     

  6. #106
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Physics.
    Could you explain? I was under the impression that the higher the center of mass, the easier it is to balance and the more stable a bicycle is. It would make it harder to change directions rapidly I suppose, but wouldn't that be less important?
     

  7. #107
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    This thread is funny. Obviously everyone is different, however my fit epiphany if you will came once I figured out that I needed lots of saddle setback, more reach, and my cleats farther back. I'd say I look pretty lemond-ish. IME people around 6' with normal-ish proportions seem to ride very similar setups once they're in shape and know what they're doing. The major fitness variable IMO is how much drop you have, when I have helped out of shape friends get on road bikes I make sure they have proper setback and reach, just not so much drop, I tell them not to change anything because they will get used to it and realize the wisdom of the classic fit discussed in this thread. It doesn't seem to work as well for short people and all bets are off with compact geometry on really small frames. Also IME setback is just a compromise between balance and hip angle.
     

  8. #108
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Boy View Post
    Bartoli rode shallow drop bars ( like the old 3ttt TDF shape), Fignon deep drop bars ( like the 3ttt Merckx)

    The picture is a bad example - Fignon's just returning to the saddle after sprinting!
    Sorry, the pedal stance is the same and thus shows the difference between the two clearly. The picture is spot on!

    In a twelve o clock position Bartoli is stretching his arms straight down.
     

  9. #109
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    At least Loknor has good pics!

    You're right, not everyone can look like Lemond on a bike. But to assume it is uncomfortable is wrong. It may be for some, but not all. Many folks can ride with a flat back and the bars far lower than their saddle with no issues. I experience no back pain when riding my bikes, all of which have bars lower than the saddle.

    Keep posting those pictures! I do like them. And I stand by my assertion that some riders have looked as good on a bike as Greg Lemond but nobody has looked better.

    But that's just aesthetics to my eyes. But he also had the physique to do it naturally. His hips rotated forward in a way that riding in that position was, in addition to looking good, natural and fast. Greg Lemond was one of the biggest talents ever to climb aboard a racing bike, and that includes his ability to achieve a perfect position on the bike. Not everyone can or should try to emulate this.
     

  10. #110
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Also of note.... Still pics rarely tell a complete story. Videos are much more instructive. Let's see some classic videos.



     

  11. #111
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    At least Loknor has good pics!

    You're right, not everyone can look like Lemond on a bike. But to assume it is uncomfortable is wrong. It may be for some, but not all. Many folks can ride with a flat back and the bars far lower than their saddle with no issues. I experience no back pain when riding my bikes, all of which have bars lower than the saddle.

    Keep posting those pictures! I do like them. And I stand by my assertion that some riders have looked as good on a bike as Greg Lemond but nobody has looked better.

    But that's just aesthetics to my eyes. But he also had the physique to do it naturally. His hips rotated forward in a way that riding in that position was, in addition to looking good, natural and fast. Greg Lemond was one of the biggest talents ever to climb aboard a racing bike, and that includes his ability to achieve a perfect position on the bike. Not everyone can or should try to emulate this.
    And I find nothing wrong with your post

    Except I prefer how Fignon sits on a bike... he was a much more exciting rider and that coors my opinion. But that's nitpicking!
     

  12. #112
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobqzz View Post
    Could you explain? I was under the impression that the higher the center of mass, the easier it is to balance and the more stable a bicycle is. It would make it harder to change directions rapidly I suppose, but wouldn't that be less important?
    You are 100% backwards. Think sports cars. Lighter is better. Lower is better. Stability and ability to change course rapidly are not mutually exclusive.
     

  13. #113
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    Sorry, the pedal stance is the same and thus shows the difference between the two clearly. The picture is spot on!

    In a twelve o clock position Bartoli is stretching his arms straight down.
    Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me?
    Fignon's arms have such a significant bend because he's out of the saddle sprinting, therefore further forward and lower than if he were riding in the saddle
     

  14. #114
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Boy View Post
    Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me?
    Fignon's arms have such a significant bend because he's out of the saddle sprinting, therefore further forward and lower than if he were riding in the saddle
    Then your eyes are playing tricks... Bartoli is much further in front. Notice that Fignon's buttock reach the saddle.

    So even though Bartoli is in front (And thus closer to his bars) he is stretching his arms. The difference in drop is clear. And Fignon almost certainly relatively has a longer reach. Fignon's position is in many shots pretty close to Hinault (see the Vuelta 83 shot).

    But where Hinault and Lemond were saddle mashers Fignon was quirky.
     

  15. #115
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by nahtnoj View Post
    You are 100% backwards. Think sports cars. Lighter is better. Lower is better. Stability and ability to change course rapidly are not mutually exclusive.
    Cars and bicycles corner completely differently- a low CG is desirable in a car, it is not in a bike. Check out the wikipedia entry Bicycle and motorcycle dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The higher the center of gravity, the easier to balance and the more stable it is.
     

  16. #116
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    More from hell... - YouTube

    moser in hell = heaven. aim to ride like that.
     

  17. #117
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by treadonme View Post
    More from hell... - YouTube

    moser in hell = heaven. aim to ride like that.
    Mmmmm looks quite painful. I prefer smooth tarmac
     

  18. #118
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by treadonme View Post
    More from hell... - YouTube

    moser in hell = heaven. aim to ride like that.
    That movie never gets old.
     

  19. #119
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobqzz View Post
    Cars and bicycles corner completely differently- a low CG is desirable in a car, it is not in a bike. Check out the wikipedia entry Bicycle and motorcycle dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The higher the center of gravity, the easier to balance and the more stable it is.
    Its not about CG, its about shifting your weight forward enough to weight the front tire so the bike actually turns when descending. The way to do that is to get lower.
     

  20. #120
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    Default Re: bike shit fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    That movie never gets old.
    Seriously thinking of going back to hell next year.
     

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