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Thread: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

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    Question Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Good Afternoon Y'all,

    I've been lurking on this forum for far too long. I am pretty much just starting out on my bicycle frame building journey. I felt like I have learned enough in the last 10 years from taking welding classes, framebuilding classes as well as building a handful bikes for myself and family that I'd finally start building for my friends, who have been asking for a long time as this is what I have been striving for. I had almost completed my 5th frame, a fillet brazed mtb, that I posted on Insta to show the progress to my friend, as well as everyone else watching; I got some pretty harsh criticism from one individual with no specific explanation. I took the post down and immediately reached out to the individual asking for specifics. A week went by and they finally got back to me and said what I am doing is unsafe and well, it sucked, but I wanted to hear from VS Mentors so I can progress-move-forward and build what I know I am capable of eventually building.

    I am happy to answer any questions and thanks in advance for looking at my work.






    A couple words about the frame. It is obviously not complete. It needs a seat stay bridge, brake support, probably a gusset to make up for the head tube/down tube space, cable routing of course and cleanup. I will state that I have decided to keep this frame for my own testing and will be starting from scratch tomorrow; building a new one for my friend.




    Sincerely,

    Greg | keefer@incognitocycles.com |

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    No.

    What's the worst that can happen? The worst that can happen is that your seemingly cold fillet with not enough contact and minimal coverage at the center - so the worst spot to have a joint - of the head tube will fail, at speed, sending you face first into the pavement. And if it's your friend he WILL sue you, imho.

    There is no shame in going back to the drawing board, refining your fillet brazing, and reworking the front of the frame.
    Steve Hampsten
    www.hampsten.blogspot.com
    "Tighten the wingnuts!"

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism


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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    That's me sir.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Agreed on going back to the drawing board. I modified a previous design I had done in BikeCAD and when I was connecting the TT and DT to the HT, I realized that yeah, there's not enough support there, seemed pretty obvious once I stepped back and looked it. But it was the general critique that the builder had given me with not enough foundation behind their comments. The headtube joint, yeah, that needs to change, and my fillets need a lot more work, before I start selling to anyone. Thanks for the honest feedback Steve. I understand that there are very few builders who just knock it out of the park on a few attempts. I am in this for the long haul, whatever that means in today's climate.

    Again, much appreciated.

    G

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    My suggestion is to reach out to someone local and ask if they would be willing to demonstrate how they fillet braze. If you find someone willing, show up with gifts and humility. You will shorten your learning curve. As is, the pictured fillets are not in the ballpark as acceptable.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Thank you Curt. I've got a lot of practice ahead of me. I might be able to reach out to Nao Tomii as Ian of Icarus had taught him. Gifts and humility are my speciality. Again, I appreciate the honest feedback on the fillets. I'll just hang that one up as an example of what "not" to do.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Here's a sample braze I did yesterday. I think it's the right direction. Still needs some work on building it up to get the desired end result. Thanks in advance.


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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    If I were you (and I’m not) to improve in isolation I’d forget about making frames for a number of months or more and line up hundreds and hundreds of smallish mitered sections and braze them together, all the while watching what happens. Perhaps try different material thicknesses (re the brass rod) and or hotter or cooler flames, or bigger or smaller tips, or being more careful versus being nonchalant about the task. You need to make intuition happen, and doing one thing repetitively is the only way it will.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Right now you are struggeling with heat control and how it influences puddle shape. In the top example it looks too cold, which I'm guessing was an attempt to not have the puddle run away from you. In the lower example it appears heat and speed were not synched, so while you were getting brass to move, you were not having good results controlling the puddle so you could sculpt root depth and edge width/ feather.

    I second Richard and Curt's advice. There really is no substitute for hands on instruction (from someone who knows what they are doing) followed by a whole lot of practice. And practice should be just that, not making a ton of bikes, but making a ton of throw away fillets to bike standards.

    Keep pushing!

    Last edited by Eric Estlund; 02-23-2021 at 12:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Most excellent and appreciated. I have the tubing and the time; should have reached out sooner. Thank you both Eric and Richard for the feedback and recommendations.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Quote Originally Posted by keefer View Post
    Most excellent and appreciated. I have the tubing and the time; should have reached out sooner. Thank you both Eric and Richard for the feedback and recommendations.
    You have to ask the ask the question, “Do I want to build a frame, or do I want to be a framebuilder?”

    My answers here and elsewhere are for folks choosing the latter.

    Good luck there.

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    Default Re: Seeking constructive fillet braze/design criticism

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    You have to ask the ask the question, “Do I want to build a frame, or do I want to be a framebuilder?”

    My answers here and elsewhere are for folks choosing the latter.

    Good luck there.
    I like the way you think Richard; I choose the latter. I wanted to post some work today and then back to 2 of x000 joints. Also I believe I have found some help with my brazing; somewhat locally here in Texas. Another big thank you to Mr Fattic.


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