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Thread: Question about welding

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    Default Question about welding

    I have question about welding.I have a TIG Esab CaddyTig 150.
    I want set that welding machine to rule of "33" for 1mm wall tubes, that give me a 40 amps
    This is my control panel:
    CaddyTig.jpg
    The "rule of 33" is a :

    33 pulses per second - for my TIG is a 0.03sek?

    33% pulse time - for my TIG is a 0.03sek?

    33% background current - 13amps?

    But what about background time?

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    You want the total pulse time to be 0.03 seconds, to give you a pulse frequency of 33Hz. Of that 0.03 seconds, you want 33% on time, so you'll be spending 0.02 seconds at the background current, and 0.01 seconds at the pulse current. Background current will indeed be 13 amps, but with machines that set pulsing parameters this way (ie. setting it as a time value, Vs. setting it as a percentage) you won't be able to get a true rule of 33's set up, because you most likely won't be running at max amperage, and therefore the background will typically be more than 33% of peak, but it's close enough.

    To get the set up you want your settings will be:

    1) 0 seconds (no upslope).
    2) 40 Amps.
    3) 0.01 seconds.
    4) 13 Amps.
    5) ).02 seconds.
    6) 0 seconds (no downslope).
    7) However many seconds it takes to keep your tungsten shiny as it cools down from welding temps.

    I learned on an Esab machine myself and became quite familiar with this kind of set up. I haven't used that machine in a while so I'm a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure these numbers are good.

    Hope this helps,


    Alistair.

    P.S. Don't forget to include your name in your signature. Forum rules and all that.
    Alistair Spence
    Seattle, WA,
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    Thank you very much Alistair.
    That was a very helpful.
    I will try that setting "on live" tommorow
    Patryk Krawczyk

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Plan_B View Post
    I have question about welding.I have a TIG Esab CaddyTig 150.
    I want set that welding machine to rule of "33" for 1mm wall tubes, that give me a 40 amps
    Keep in mind that nearly every joint on a bike frame is a thin tube being welded to a thick tube. Definitely experiment with the settings that you're asking about, but also experiment with cranking your amps...you're going to want the head room to start a puddle quickly. Keep in mind too that the rule of thumb of 1A/0.001" is when you're running straight amperage. If you're setting your on-time to 33% of that, you're reducing the heat input significantly and will have to dwell longer to get the puddle to size which will ultimately lead to overheating the joint.

    FYI, I keep my machine set to about 150A nearly all the time. By all means, experiment with every possible way to weld a joint, it'll be good for you. But don't stick with the rule of 33 and stall out wondering why you're not getting better results. Crank up the amperage and know that it's better to weld hot and fast than to weld slow and wait for the heat to build.
    Sean Chaney
    www.vertigocycles.com
    a peek behind the curtain

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    Yes. Get in, get it joined and get out. Works like that for brazing, too.
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
    Summoner of Crickets
    http://edozbicycles.wordpress.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/edozbicycles/
    In Before the Lock

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    Thanks guys for your advice!

    Today I tried the following settings for the rule "33".

    1) 0 seconds (no upslope).
    2) 40 Amps.
    3) 0.01 seconds.
    4) 13 Amps.
    5) ).02 seconds.
    6) 0 seconds (no downslope).
    7) However many seconds it takes to keep your tungsten shiny as it cools down from welding temps.
    ,but it was too low. I picked up the amperage to 50/17, and it was great.
    Then I tried pulse 40 / 20amps time 1/1 seconds. At the moment I think the welding of rule "33" is easier. The second thing is that I do not have control of the foot pedal (costs about 400 euros: /), so I can not manually control the amperage.

    Regards
    Patryk Krawczyk

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    A foot pedal will be the best investment you ever made for thin bike tubing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plan_B View Post
    Thanks guys for your advice!

    Today I tried the following settings for the rule "33".



    ,but it was too low. I picked up the amperage to 50/17, and it was great.
    Then I tried pulse 40 / 20amps time 1/1 seconds. At the moment I think the welding of rule "33" is easier. The second thing is that I do not have control of the foot pedal (costs about 400 euros: /), so I can not manually control the amperage.

    Regards
    Bill Fernance
    Bicycle Shop Owner
    Part Time Framebuilder
    Bicycle Tragic

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Plan_B View Post
    Thanks guys for your advice!

    Today I tried the following settings for the rule "33".



    ,but it was too low. I picked up the amperage to 50/17, and it was great.
    Then I tried pulse 40 / 20amps time 1/1 seconds. At the moment I think the welding of rule "33" is easier. The second thing is that I do not have control of the foot pedal (costs about 400 euros: /), so I can not manually control the amperage.

    Regards


    Hmm, I'd say that welding thin walled tubing, especially if you are still learning, without a foot pedal, is a pretty tall order. Yes, you can control the puddle to some extent using torch travel speed and rod dabbing, but I'd say that a foot pedal is an essential piece of kit in this instance.

    If you have a torch switch (ie. a hand operated switch on the torch), you could set the welding parameters so that you have an upslope and downslope, then you could manually pulse, switching the torch on and off. A little crude, but better than just running straight current, and if you already have one, then maybe give it a shot.

    If you have neither a torch switch or a foot pedal then I would suggest saving your pennies and picking up one of the latter, and get a good one. The lack of precision that a cheap, shitty pedal affords is frustrating, and when welding thin walled tubing you'll want the precise control that a quality foot pedal gives.


    Alistair.
    Alistair Spence
    Seattle, WA,
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/

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    Default Re: Question about welding

    A foot pedal will be the best investment you ever made for thin bike tubing.
    Yes I know that!:)...but if you are just starting out, then you have to look everywhere compromise. For now I have to buy /to do everything;). So now I must use that, what I have, and that money for the foot control, I spent on other things like JIG's, tubes, bills;). Working without a pedal is not easy, but it is not impossible

    If you have neither a torch switch or a foot pedal then I would suggest saving your pennies and picking up one of the latter, and get a good one. The lack of precision that a cheap, shitty pedal affords is frustrating, and when welding thin walled tubing you'll want the precise control that a quality foot pedal gives.
    I agree with that one hundred percent

    Thanks All For advice
    Regards
    Patryk Krawczyk

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