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Thread: New frame with paint overspray

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    Default New frame with paint overspray

    Hi,

    Just received a new custom frame from a well known builder.
    The seat tube has a lot of paint overspray inside it.
    The seatpost goes in but with more resistance than I would like.
    I do have a flex hone that I bought and used on another frame.
    Would it better to use that or sandpaper to clean it out?
    When the frame was being built and I asked them if they face the BB and they said yes it is part of our process.
    The outside surfaces of the BB are covered with paint and I will be installing outboard Hollowtech bearings.
    I would rather not remove the paint, is this going to be a problem?

    Thanks for any advise.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    We’re all different animals.

    I never use a facing tool on my shell after the very first pass, which occurs prior to making the frame. This process rectifies the sides and, if possible, improves them ever so slightly in contrast to their condition from the casting house.

    Regarding the tube interior, if you’re confident with your hand-eye coordination by all means use the flex hone.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    The flex hone is exactly what I would suggest for cleaning inside your seat tube.
    Regarding the BB, the paint will chip where the outboard bearings snug up to the BB shell if it isn’t faced. Getting it faced isn’t a guarantee that you won’t get some chips though; I faced the BB on every bike I have and some still got small chips anyway.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    I am Ok with using the flex hone, just disappointing that the builder did not take care of this.
    Another question is I want to use a seat post that I already have but cut it short for another frame that has a longer seat tube.
    So there will only be 2-7/8" of seatpost going into the frame which is 853 Pro team tubing.
    Is this ok or should I buy a new seatpost?

    Thanks

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by Deluz View Post
    I am Ok with using the flex hone, just disappointing that the builder did not take care of this.
    Another question is I want to use a seat post that I already have but cut it short for another frame that has a longer seat tube.
    So there will only be 2-7/8" of seatpost going into the frame which is 853 Pro team tubing.
    Is this ok or should I buy a new seatpost?

    Thanks

    new post (longer length) recommended.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Mercian frames have gorgeous paint. Sometimes it spills into the hollows. A flexhone will easily fix the seapost issue. Don't forget to use cutting oil.

    I'd punt that seatpost to the classifieds.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Thanks for the advise on the seatpost, I will get a new one.
    But I do like to cut it shorter to make it easier to move up / down.
    If I get a post that is 330mm I will have over 7 inches going into the frame.
    Would 4 inches be ok? Seems like 100mm minimum insertion is standard on most.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    F5434EDB-DFC8-47C7-AF25-B468AC239A57.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Deluz View Post
    .
    Would 4 inches be ok? Seems like 100mm minimum insertion is standard on most.
    That's what I tell people 4 is OK but 5 is better as the seat tube sleeve on mine is 3 & 7/8" and that junction has a lot of stress
    - Garro
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by Deluz View Post
    Hi,

    Just received a new custom frame from a well known builder.
    The seat tube has a lot of paint overspray inside it.
    The seatpost goes in but with more resistance than I would like.
    I do have a flex hone that I bought and used on another frame.
    Would it better to use that or sandpaper to clean it out?
    When the frame was being built and I asked them if they face the BB and they said yes it is part of our process.
    The outside surfaces of the BB are covered with paint and I will be installing outboard Hollowtech bearings.
    I would rather not remove the paint, is this going to be a problem?

    Thanks for any advise.
    For the BB face, you can use a very sharp razor blade and kind of slice off the paint on the BB face. This way it won't chip and risk removing paint on the cylindrical portion.
    Brandon Poser
    BAHL Cycle Works
    brandon@bahlcycle.com
    www.bahlcycle.com
    Instagram: @bahlcycle

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    The flex hones I've bought (maybe 5 over the last 30 years), and used (dozens of times), all mentioned to not use any oil but water instead. I believe the issue is keeping the stone free of build up and nothing to do with maintaining a sharp cutting edge (as with a tap or reamer).

    To the post and paint in ST- Before you do remove that paint test fir the post you will finally settle on using. Posts are well known for not holding real tight to their "dimension".

    To the paint of the BB faces- I do suggest cutting the outer corner of the face with a small file or a knife edge before filing off the rest of the face's paint. It's easy to get a chip from the face to also flake off a tiny amount of paint on the shell's outer surface (where the chip will be seen).

    This thread speaks to what a customer was expecting and what the builder assumed the person who will build up the parts can handle. I have found it typical that a new frame will need some detail work before putting parts on it. Andy
    Andy Stewart
    10%

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    I ended up using the flex hone since there was a lot of overspray inside the seat tube.
    Having done it once before it went pretty smoothly and it removed all of the paint.
    It helped a little, but once the seat post gets about 2.5 inches inside the tube it starts to bind and getting it in the last 1/2 inch requires a lot of force and twisting.
    The I tried sanding the post down a bit. It is a Ritchey Classic and measured 27.2mm with my digital calipers. I took it down to maybe 27.15mm focusing more on the bottom portion.
    This did not help the binding problem. I am thinking either the seat tube has an area that narrows down a bit, or it is bowed.
    I took a straight edge to it and there does seem to be some bowing. I need to get a new seat post because I need a zero setback with this frame.
    I would like to have 100mm insertion but I don't see that happening right now.

    Then I moved on to the BB. I felt more comfortable using sandpaper instead of a knife. So found a dead flat piece of wood and wrapped some 320 grit sand paper around it.
    I was concerned about the sandpaper contacting the chain stay so I put some masking tape on it and was watching very carefully.
    But because I could not keep the block from rocking it did touch the chain stay beyond where I put the masking tape and took off some clear coat.
    So then I got a razor blade and that worked much much better. I repaired the scrape in the clear coat by wet sanding it and I had a can of spray on clear coat. It is not perfect but ok.
    I tried to install the BB cups but the threads would not engage. Finally I got it to start going but after about two threads using finger pressure the resistance was too high and I gave up.
    Now I have to take it to the shop and have the threads cleaned out, I think there is overspray on them.

    Kind of disappointing to spend a lot of money on a custom frame and have all these problems.
    Another thing is one of the dropouts on the fork is too narrow to slide in the wheel. I have to apply a bit of pressure to get the wheel in.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by Deluz View Post
    Kind of disappointing to spend a lot of money on a custom frame and have all these problems.
    Another thing is one of the dropouts on the fork is too narrow to slide in the wheel. I have to apply a bit of pressure to get the wheel in.
    You should not be having these problems, the builder should have run a hone down the tube before you ever got it - I have a dedicated Bringheli reamer that chases the tube 10" from the top.

    Also likely the fork was hanging from the ST and the paint then will drip down the frame & narrow the DO gap.

    If you can't put a post in it properly the bike is not useable and even dangerous were you to ride it with that level of post insertion

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 08-15-2022 at 12:41 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    You should not be having these problems, the builder should have run a hone down the tube before you ever got it - I have a dedicated Bringheli reamer that chases the tube 10" from the top.

    Also likely the fork was hanging from the ST and the paint then will drip down the frame & narrow the DO gap.

    If you can't put a post in it properly the bike is not useable and even dangerous were you to ride it with that level of post insertion

    - Garro.
    The builder told me 73mm insertion was ok. I have also read that as long the seat post is at least one diameter below the top tube it is ok.
    Its hard to know where to draw the line. If it matters I weight 140 lbs.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    I once (in 1991) bought a bespoke frame from a builder who lived and worked near Elgin in Scotland. This was long before I started building my own frames and, although I was experienced in building bikes and wheels, I did not own all the tools like bottom bracket tapping and facing tools.

    There was paint overspray inside the bottom bracket shell and I could not get the Campagnolo Record cartridge bottom bracket with aluminium threads to seat properly.

    I telephoned the frame builder for advice, expecting him to tell me to go to my local bike shop.

    The next day the builder drove from Elgin to Nottingham, where I lived. This involved a round trip of 908 miles. He cleaned the bottom bracket and, as he could see that I was interested, gave me a tutorial about this. When he was satisfied that everything was within my abilities to cope, he drove back to Elgin, still apologising for omitting to finish that detail of the frame.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jacobs View Post
    I once (in 1991) bought a bespoke frame from a builder who lived and worked near Elgin in Scotland. This was long before I started building my own frames and, although I was experienced in building bikes and wheels, I did not own all the tools like bottom bracket tapping and facing tools.

    There was paint overspray inside the bottom bracket shell and I could not get the Campagnolo Record cartridge bottom bracket with aluminium threads to seat properly.

    I telephoned the frame builder for advice, expecting him to tell me to go to my local bike shop.

    The next day the builder drove from Elgin to Nottingham, where I lived. This involved a round trip of 908 miles. He cleaned the bottom bracket and, as he could see that I was interested, gave me a tutorial about this. When he was satisfied that everything was within my abilities to cope, he drove back to Elgin, still apologising for omitting to finish that detail of the frame.
    Great story, unfortunately I am located in another country over 5,000 miles away.
    I have a good friend who is head mechanic at a local shop, he has a Campagnolo tool to clean it out so I will be going there tomorrow.
    In hindsight I probably should have gone with a builder more local.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    The next day the builder drove from Elgin to Nottingham, where I lived. This involved a round trip of 908 miles. He cleaned the bottom bracket and, as he could see that I was interested, gave me a tutorial about this. When he was satisfied that everything was within my abilities to cope, he drove back to Elgin, still apologising for omitting to finish that detail of the frame.
    Charles Ralph (Alves)?
    Steven Shand
    www.willowbike.com
    Handbuilt Bicycles - Scotland, UK

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    My last custom frame had paint build up in the seat lug that wouldn’t allow a seat post bolt through. (Everything else was pretty much prepped and perfect).

    One pass of a drill and all was well.
    Old and slow, but I used to be young and slow.

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    This is like one of the big brands delivering to the retailers frame sets with disc brake mounts that have not been faced to enable properly aligned calliper installation.

    I guess there might be something to be said about ordering a complete bike rather than only a frame or frame set from the builder.

    It shouldn't be like that, but hey ho.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    When selling frames and accessories, the product should be delivered in "ready to assemble" condition. This means that the head tube, bottom bracket, and seat tube have all been finish prepped; faced, tapped, and reamed. Post paint tolerances should be checked and corrected if necessary. This should not be the customers burden. I'm sorry that your are dealing with these issues in what should be a long awaited event that brings joy.

    I went through growing pains as a builder, performing tasks with less than adequate tools and getting barely satisfactory results. It only took a few negative customer experiences, like above, before I fully understood that I needed to make financial investments in the correct tooling and procedures to ensure that my products reflected the level of professionalism that is expected. It was embarrassing and I did not want to experience that again.

    Please reach out to your builder and let them know what you have gone through, not as a negative exercise, but to help them comprehend the frustrations experienced when the final product does not meet your expectations. They need to hear it, as it is a kindness to all customers that follow after you.

    This frustrating experience is just one of the reasons that I strongly encourage independent builders I mentor to provide only complete bicycles...it ensures that the end product is as close to perfect as possible before the customer takes possession. We all want a positive experience at the end of the transaction.

    cheers,

    Rody
    Rody Walter
    Groovy Cycleworks...Custom frames with a dash of Funk!
    Website - www.groovycycleworks.com
    Blog - www.groovycycleworks.blogspot.com
    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Groov...s/227115749408

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    Default Re: New frame with paint overspray

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody View Post
    When selling frames and accessories, the product should be delivered in "ready to assemble" condition. This means that the head tube, bottom bracket, and seat tube have all been finish prepped; faced, tapped, and reamed. Post paint tolerances should be checked and corrected if necessary. This should not be the customers burden. I'm sorry that your are dealing with these issues in what should be a long awaited event that brings joy.

    I went through growing pains as a builder, performing tasks with less than adequate tools and getting barely satisfactory results. It only took a few negative customer experiences, like above, before I fully understood that I needed to make financial investments in the correct tooling and procedures to ensure that my products reflected the level of professionalism that is expected. It was embarrassing and I did not want to experience that again.

    Please reach out to your builder and let them know what you have gone through, not as a negative exercise, but to help them comprehend the frustrations experienced when the final product does not meet your expectations. They need to hear it, as it is a kindness to all customers that follow after you.

    This frustrating experience is just one of the reasons that I strongly encourage independent builders I mentor to provide only complete bicycles...it ensures that the end product is as close to perfect as possible before the customer takes possession. We all want a positive experience at the end of the transaction.

    cheers,

    Rody
    Good on you for saying ensure instead of insure. One of my pet peeves...

    On a less serious note, what you say makes sense. When I had my Woodrup made, I initially considered having them do the frame set only and have my LBS do the remainder of the build simply because I wanted my LBS to get a piece of the pie since they will be the ones servicing the bike from time to time. (Woodrup is in the UK, and I am in Belgium.)

    Woodrup preferred to do the complete build to ensure that everything works as intended so I agreed, with the exception of the wheel set, which I involved my LBS.

    I sourced the seat post directly from Kent Eriksen. I also sourced an SMP saddle myself since I was going to have one of my business partners to apply a finish to the carbon shell. Woodrup wanted the seat post so I sent it to them without asking any questions.

    This was before Brexit took effect. Now, there are significant tax implications because the UK is now a third country for EU member states like Belgium. For example, I'm sure Campagnolo components have had a stupid price increase in the UK because there are import costs that didn't exit before. Re-importing those European components to the EU, valued and taxed at higher UK invoice price, is just fiscal stupidity for the end buyer.

    If I want a complicated build such as a dynamo hub wired to some cleverly placed switch and charging port for devices, then I would want the builder to do the complete build. Would I go back to Woodrup, instead of an EU-based builder, for that? If I'm honest, unlikely. For a straightforward build, yes, but only for a frame set, which I would expect to be, as you say, "ready to assemble".

    I'm guessing that the OP had similar considerations when he ordered the frame set.

    But yeah, I'm talking theory, and you're talking practice, as Woodrup did with me, in recommending that commissions be for a complete build.

    Not to sound unreasonable, but the buyer shouldn't have to be the nanny, effectively by ordering a complete build, if what s/he wants is just the frame set.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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