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Thread: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

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    Default Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Hello everyone -

    Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm currently drawing up frame number... 6-ish... and have run into a question. I've read nearly every thread on this forum over the last couple of years, but I do apologize in advance if this has been covered previously. My bookmarks didn't reveal much.

    This project is a dropped top-tube, mixte-style frame for my wife. All fillet brazed. The top tube will connect to the middle of the seat tube. There will be two sets of seat stays - one attaching to the seat tube directly behind the top tube and one in the traditional place. All fastback style, fillet brazed again.

    I've built one frame previously in this style, for myself. In that case, I used a straight gauge 1.25"/.035" seat tube, with a reinforcement sleeve only at the top-most junction. (Thanks to Steve Garro and John Norstog, who discussed this in a thread long ago.)

    This time, I'd like to use a 28.6 seat tube, if I can. It seems my options are 1. An externally butted tube, everything brazed directly to it, or 2. A single-butted seat tube with sleeves at (both? or just the top-most?) brazing points.

    Are there any rules-of-thumb you've come to accept when brazing to the thin part of butted tubes? I know there's been discussion of braze-on placement (like shifter bosses on downtubes) landing in the thin section of a tube, but anything specific to seat tubes? Is the concern, in this case, distortion and insertion of the seat post, or general strength of the tube itself?

    Thank you for any replies. I appreciate your willingness to share more than I could state here!

    (Also, the photos and ramblings of a hack-hobbyist, if you're interested: Instagram @theblandbicycle )

    -Chris

    Chris Blandford
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Add the braze-on to the tube before adding the tube to the frame assembly.
    Do otherwise at your own peril.

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by cblandford View Post
    Is the concern, in this case, distortion and insertion of the seat post, or general strength of the tube itself?
    ...yes.

    Add beef and you should be ok.

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Eric - thanks. Add beef to the joint at the top of both pairs of seatstays? Or only at the top of the usual pair (where reaming through distortion would cause issues)?

    Chris Blandford
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    Add the braze-on to the tube before adding the tube to the frame assembly.
    Do otherwise at your own peril.
    Thanks Richard - I appreciate the advice!

    -Chris

    Chris Blandford
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    I'd be hesitant about any stays brazed on a .6mm seat tube wall.

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Estlund View Post
    I'd be hesitant about any stays brazed on a .6mm seat tube wall.
    Great - that helps a lot. Thank you for taking the time!

    Chris Blandford
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    IMG_3285.JPG


    Here is my solution


    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post

    Here is my solution

    - Garro.
    Steve - That's both helpful and awesome. Thanks for sharing!

    -Chris
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by cblandford View Post
    Steve - That's both helpful and awesome. Thanks for sharing!

    -Chris
    Finished

    IMG_3316.JPG




    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    Finished

    - Garro.
    Steve - If you don't mind my asking: what is the round hole in the upper sleeve for? I'd love to see a shot of the entire frame if/when you have one.

    -Chris
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    IMG_3442.JPGIMG_3445.JPG

    Quote Originally Posted by cblandford View Post
    Steve - If you don't mind my asking: what is the round hole in the upper sleeve for? I'd love to see a shot of the entire frame if/when you have one.

    -Chris
    It's the seat tube slot pucker hole

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post

    It's the seat tube slot pucker hole

    - Garro.
    Well, sure. Now I feel dumb - makes perfect sense to do it A. Ahead of brazing and B. on the front side. Thank you for posting.

    I'll post back with my completed frame down the road - thanks again for all the help!

    -Chris
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    All - Here's what I came up with:








    Single-butted seat tube, mixte-style seat lug/binder, and an .058" sleeve for the extra set of stays. I decided to go with side-tacked stays instead of fastback, because the tire clearances and brake posts asked me to. I debated adding a bridge/brace -- that would also attach to the seat tube -- to those stays but decided against it because I liked the aesthetic without. I have slight concerns (not sure if they're warranted or not) about that bridge-less junction -- especially given the brake setup -- but I figure this bike is going to live in my garage and be ridden pretty lightly, so I can keep an eye on it. Feel free to advise if you see anything amiss, though.

    Thank you again for the replies and direction. This will be the 3rd frame that I feel ok enough about to send off for paint... I think my wife is going to dig it!

    (By the way, Steve... while your example was awesome, my wife isn't really one for hearts. I'm not going to tell her that her new bike is hiding one!)

    -Chris

    -
    Chris Blandford
     

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by cblandford View Post
    All - Here's what I came up with:



    Chris Blandford
    It came out sweet, man!

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Brazing to Thin Sections of Main Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    It came out sweet, man!

    - Garro.
    Thank you!
     

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