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Thread: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    So for all the crystal ball gazing pre-race, it is Froome on top at the moment (hasn't crashed, been caught up in a crash or been shelled in the cross-winds). Cobbles tonight, so who knows what will happen (if the previous chaotic stage is any guide).

    Here's a breakdown of the GC hopefuls three stages in.

    1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky (+9) 0:00:00
    3 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team (+5) 0:00:13
    7 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Etixx - Quick-Step (+0) 0:00:34
    8 Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff-Saxo (+6) 0:00:36
    12 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek Factory Racing (+18) 0:01:32
    13 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team (+20) 0:01:38
    14 Robert Gesink (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo (+14) 0:01:39
    16 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team (+23) 0:01:51
    17 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team (+27) 0:01:56
    18 Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha (+53) 0:02:00
    21 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale (+20) 0:02:07
    23 Andrew Talansky (USA) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team (+32) 0:02:39
    26 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale (+52) 0:02:54
    27 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ.fr (+4) 0:02:58
    46 Richie Porte (Aus) Team Sky (+0) 0:05:48
    56 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Trek Factory Racing (+61) 0:06:36
    60 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar (+110) 0:06:42
    62 Wilco Kelderman (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo (+33) 0:06:49
     

  2. #102
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanEasley View Post
    well then I hope you didn't see the part where one of the attendants was taking a guy with obvious facial/head injuries and propping his head up on a helmet...I don't know if it is from going through a high-speed crash myself in a race last season, but I found watching the whole thing rather sickening. What have things come to? 4th tier dirt track open wheel bandit racers in the mid-west seem to have a better chance at surviving their sport unscathed than a TDF rider.

    The emotional mist and personally tinged hindsight being cast over this. Being painful to watch and it being a situation you are actively participating in as a professional are not the same thing. That mechanic did his job which he is better at than almost anyone else in the world, put aside emotion to deliver on their professional commitments. I'm not seeing much but a passing jab at the medical staff either.

    Not so long ago grit and determination were still a part of racing. Cancellara hopped back on the bike and made a lot of professional assessments that let him hold his head high long after his race finishes. If his doctors allow he will more than likely ride a bike tomorrow in some capacity because that is what he does. To lay there without doing so is more painful. 4th tier redneck material would be neck deep in titty mags and beer to survive.
     

  3. #103
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by devlin View Post
    It was pretty brutal and the FDJ riders was hit very hard from the following scrum just after he cam to a stop. I've read he is in a coma in hospital. While I don't know him it's hard to care about the rest of the race knowing he's that bad off. It's definitely a sport of mm.
    Was that fdj dude taking a selfie whilst waiting for medical assessment? I'm sure I saw him snap one.
     

  4. #104
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchess View Post
    The emotional mist and personally tinged hindsight being cast over this. Being painful to watch and it being a situation you are actively participating in as a professional are not the same thing. That mechanic did his job which he is better at than almost anyone else in the world, put aside emotion to deliver on their professional commitments. I'm not seeing much but a passing jab at the medical staff either.

    Not so long ago grit and determination were still a part of racing. Cancellara hopped back on the bike and made a lot of professional assessments that let him hold his head high long after his race finishes. If his doctors allow he will more than likely ride a bike tomorrow in some capacity because that is what he does. To lay there without doing so is more painful. 4th tier redneck material would be neck deep in titty mags and beer to survive.
    The athletes are just doing what athletes do, which is messing up their long term health by doing things like getting back on the bike after feeling pain from the same part of your back that you broke in March. Not a whole lot to celebrate there. Though we all do to some degree. Situations like this just underscore how bad of a career choice cycling is.
     

  5. #105
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by devlin View Post
    It was pretty brutal and the FDJ riders was hit very hard from the following scrum just after he cam to a stop. I've read he is in a coma in hospital. While I don't know him it's hard to care about the rest of the race knowing he's that bad off. It's definitely a sport of mm.
    Not sure where you are getting your information but Bonnet was fine, he was sent to the hospital for further checks.
     

  6. #106
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Matt White (OGE) in the media is quoted as saying he was in hospital and pretty bad off. I'll see if I can find where I read it.
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  7. #107
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Bah. Can't find it now. Cyclingnews is still saying he has fractures in his neck which will require surgery though.
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by devlin View Post
    Bah. Can't find it now. Cyclingnews is still saying he has fractures in his neck which will require surgery though.
    If this is true, this illustrates my point (emotionally tinged or not) that there's no place for the romance for the days of the 'grit and determination' in running in and picking guys up off the pavement after a 45 m/hr pile-up and strapping them back on their bikes just to make it to the finish. I agree with one of the riders interviewed who said that the stage should've been neutralized at that point or possibly until just before the final climb of the day.
     

  9. #109
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
    The athletes are just doing what athletes do, which is messing up their long term health by doing things like getting back on the bike after feeling pain from the same part of your back that you broke in March. Not a whole lot to celebrate there. Though we all do to some degree. Situations like this just underscore how bad of a career choice cycling is.
    I second this - I like Cancellara and the romance of cycling, but in what alternate reality is it a good or wise decision to get back on the bike with a broken back and possibly concussed? Frankly I think more has to be done to prevent injured riders from carrying on and posing a risk to themselves and others. I have no idea how better protocols would be implemented and followed in the heat of the race.
     

  10. #110
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Hey Sean, I think that was the lead race doc who did that. Really bad move.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanEasley View Post
    well then I hope you didn't see the part where one of the attendants was taking a guy with obvious facial/head injuries and propping his head up on a helmet...I don't know if it is from going through a high-speed crash myself in a race last season, but I found watching the whole thing rather sickening. What have things come to? 4th tier dirt track open wheel bandit racers in the mid-west seem to have a better chance at surviving their sport unscathed than a TDF rider.

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Toddykins View Post
    ...is it a good or wise decision to get back on the bike with a broken back and possibly concussed?
    Of course it isn't. But modern gladiators in all areas make bad decisions. There is actually a fascinating set of business literature on System 1 vs System 2 thinking, decision making abilities and how stress, panic and other factors contribute to making less than optimal decisions. Too tangential for this forum and this thread but interested parties can Google for this stuff. HBR is a good starting place with many academic articles on the topic of decision making.

    Take something like a bike crash and a rider making a decision to continue or not and you just know good choices are not being made in the moment. But their definition of "good" and our definition of "good" and the factors guiding the choices are different.

    On the race, I thought the first three stages (except for the big crash) were outstanding. Nice TT, the course and winds on stage 2 and the finale it produced were fun and the stage 3 course with that penultimate climb and then the Huy was brilliant. Also interesting to see the different players playing different cards. So much better than XYZ Trains pulling along staring at power meters and listening to the team car.

    Unfortunately at work so have to follow the now-casting stuff today and wont get to watch the cobbles in real time.
     

  12. #112
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    What do we think of this bike change strategy by Contador?
    If you didn't see it, or haven't heard, he often changes bikes in the middle of the stage
    like before a climb, or today when he hops on a "cobble" bike.

    I personally don't like it. Not sure how you'd prevent it with the rules,
    but it strikes me as against the spirit of why we have mixed terrain stages
    in the first place, which is about compromising optimal conditions,
    something the makes it more difficult for the specialist. Thoughts?

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

  13. #113
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Hey Sean, I think that was the lead race doc who did that. Really bad move.
    Scary. I have to assume that particular guy had his spine checked first at least since we only get to see snapshots...in the case of Bonnet, he was rightfully retired from the race whether his choice or not. C2 fx you can be walking around one minute seemingly OK and paralyzed for life or dead the next minute just from one wrong move. This is why it's called a hangman's fracture.

    Hopefully all involved, from the riders with the risks they take to the staff and officials learned something going forward from such a bad crash.

    Last word from the soapbox; let's see how many of the short promo pieces on NBCSN use the gratuitous footage to get you to "tune in at 8 tonight for more chances to see carnage!"
     

  14. #114
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    I don't like it either Grant. They should start on one type/version of a frame and only have spares of the same type/version.
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  15. #115
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Injury report from CyclingNews.
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
    The athletes are just doing what athletes do, which is messing up their long term health by doing things like getting back on the bike after feeling pain from the same part of your back that you broke in March. Not a whole lot to celebrate there. Though we all do to some degree. Situations like this just underscore how bad of a career choice cycling is.
    That argument works if you broke your hip three times in a year by wearing a U-lock on it (underscore mine). Taking one of the finest specimens out of billions and saying they categorically will be ruined from continuing on despite injury in competition is absurd. All I'm asking is to separate the fans determination towards fickle statements from attacking race personnel based on a sliver of a second third hand insight into the situation.

    What happens outside of racing breaking down the hard work done inside it happens considerably more often than injuries alone set someone on the road to personal ruin.
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    What do we think of this bike change strategy by Contador?
    I don't care for it and think it places even greater emphasis on equipment and that detracts from the racing and the athlete. Fully understand that this isn't "spec racing" and riders and teams are free to use different gear, but think it detracts. No issue with replacing broken bikes and wheels like-for-like if something breaks, puncture, etc. Don't want races decided by mechanicals that are out of the riders control. Though one could argue there is a skill to elegantly not breaking a bike on cobbles and other rough terrain as opposed to just barreling through.

    Following the commentary today and seems like several top riders opted for the change-a-bike strategy not just Contador?

    -Mark
     

  18. #118
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchess View Post
    That argument works if you broke your hip three times in a year by wearing a U-lock on it (underscore mine). Taking one of the finest specimens out of billions and saying they categorically will be ruined from continuing on despite injury in competition is absurd. All I'm asking is to separate the fans determination towards fickle statements from attacking race personnel based on a sliver of a second third hand insight into the situation.

    What happens outside of racing breaking down the hard work done inside it happens considerably more often than injuries alone set someone on the road to personal ruin.
    Take a look at any retired boxer. They WERE fine specimens. I bet the ground at 50 mph hits pretty hard. Anyway, modern sporting organizations disagree with you as well. Even FIFA gave docs the power to pull concussed players out of games last year. Cycling is a few decades behind as far as participant safety goes.
     

  19. #119
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    I don't like it either... but I'm the idiot who thinks stage races would be more exciting if they had to ride the same bike all three weeks and the tires were the only thing that could change day to day.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    What do we think of this bike change strategy by Contador?
    If you didn't see it, or haven't heard, he often changes bikes in the middle of the stage
    like before a climb, or today when he hops on a "cobble" bike.

    I personally don't like it. Not sure how you'd prevent it with the rules,
    but it strikes me as against the spirit of why we have mixed terrain stages
    in the first place, which is about compromising optimal conditions,
    something the makes it more difficult for the specialist. Thoughts?

    -g
    "Beauty is the visible expression of man's pleasure in labor."—Frederic Goudy

    Dave Wofford . | . H O R S E . & . B U G G Y . P R E S S
    graphic design, letterpress printing, fine press books and more . . . for the jet age and beyond.

  20. #120
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    I promise you that Froome ain't staring at his powermeter on the cobbles.

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