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Thread: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

  1. #181
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by xjoex View Post
    I watched it a few times on my DVR, really looked to me like he was trying to lean in to another rider way too hard.

    I really think he caused it.

    -Joe
    I've watched the replay quite a few times and if you watch the Europcar rider the whole time he does come from all the way from the center of the road to right in front of Martin (who holds his position the whole time towards the left) and then he makes one last jerk to the left before Tony body checks wildly right. Watch the Europcar rider and consider the speed this is happening real time and I think Martin may have had something to react to for Martin's lean comes right after the Europcar rider moves ever so slightly to his left; just a few seconds before this guy wasn't even in Martin's field of view.
     

  2. #182
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by xjoex View Post
    I watched it a few times on my DVR, really looked to me like he was trying to lean in to another rider way too hard.

    I really think he caused it.

    -Joe
    He did cause it, but surely not intentionally. He was trying to keep his balance after having his front wheel knocked by the Europcar rider in front of him. He was way off balance and was leaning on the Giant rider next to him, but not to push him out of the way. It was a survival move. It was an accident and nothing more sinister than that. These things happen in bike racing.

    I don't think there's much deliberate dirty riding. Dirty riders don't last long in bike racing. Occasionally bumping but most of that is unintentional and not dirty by nature. Dirty riders find themselves in the ditch.
     

  3. #183
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Man, it really is a soap opera on wheels.

    I really like Tony Martin. Glad to see him get yellow. Hate to see that happen to him.
     

  4. #184
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    I'm calling this one--Yellow Jersey is cursed in 2015.
     

  5. #185
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    The next carrier is froomey....

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by SignatureJustin View Post
    Wireless Di2 will be in this years Tour.

    Charging your battery is much nicer than adjusting derailleurs. :)

    Is anyone else as excited about this as I am. I keep waiting for news to drop.
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by holliscx View Post
    Who else saw that, it looked to me like Martin was looking for contact and caused his own crash. He was veering/leaning/reaching to shoulder block a Giant rider at any cost and paid his collarbone and the yellow jersey for it.

    I noticed it live and every replay since. I like TM but it looked like he was riding dirty, anyone see it differently?
    Yes, I too think he went a bit too far and paid a high price for that. Shoulder-to-shoulder is normal, but up to a certain extend: ask M. Cavendish
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
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    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

  8. #188
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    “The collarbone is in lots of pieces, so it was a major impact. One of the pieces came through the skin, which means it’s an open fracture. Therefore, even if it was Tony’s [Martin] wish to start tomorrow, I have to say he is not allowed to."
    Read more at Tony Martin forced to abandon Tour de France - VeloNews.com

    weird. ya'll ever copy and pasted something from Velonews? It inserts the web address.
    -Dustin

  9. #189
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by sebaudet View Post
    The next carrier is froomey....
    My first thought, get Froome back in yellow :)
     

  10. #190
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JonWms. View Post
    My first thought, get Froome back in yellow :)
    Leading the race now is no advantage. It only matters to lead in Paris.
     

  11. #191
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    He did cause it, but surely not intentionally. He was trying to keep his balance after having his front wheel knocked by the Europcar rider in front of him. He was way off balance and was leaning on the Giant rider next to him, but not to push him out of the way. It was a survival move. It was an accident and nothing more sinister than that. These things happen in bike racing.

    I don't think there's much deliberate dirty riding. Dirty riders don't last long in bike racing. Occasionally bumping but most of that is unintentional and not dirty by nature. Dirty riders find themselves in the ditch.
    Yes. Least of all from Tony Martin. He's universally seen as an all-round nice guy, yes? The Europcar rider moved left as Tony Martin moved right. The lean was an attempt to save it and that attempt failed.
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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    I am surprised that Nibali was angry at Froome. Looked like Nibali ran into Froome, if anything. Glad they sorted it out.

    Pandemonium at the finish when GC faves tumble - VeloNews.com
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    This first week has been turmulteous and a lot of mixed feelings..... I really enjoyed Stybar winning but crushed to see Martin go down like this. Hope the race remains entertaining with twists but less so those of key figures going down.
    Nathan H

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    So far so good for Froome. He’s placed himself where he needs to be on the tough stages (cobbles), took advantage when he could (Huy), and when there was an opportunity for misunderstanding to blow up (with Nibali in the Martin crash), he dealt with it head on.

    I’d love a double for AC, but Froome is looking fit and mentally solid.
    Geoff used to race around on a Brodie Sovereign
    Geoff Morgan

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    No way. Replayed it 10 times. Body checking like an ice hockey player. Lost some respect for him today.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdp211 View Post
    Tony Martin and Vincenzo Nibali go down in final km crash, Stage 6 (2015/tour-de-france)
    Looks to me like he was trying not to cross wheels with the Europcar rider in front of him and leaned a bit too hard or something, came swinging across and went down hard.
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    He got his wheel caught on the rear wheel of the rider in front and was leaning right. When it came uncaught he fell into the rider to his right. He didn't body check anyone. He fell into the rider to his right. Anyone who has ever raced can see this. Watch how his bike and body lurch to the right when his wheel gets unstuck. I've seen it in races since the 1980s and I saw it on our local ride about a year ago. Lucky nobody was killed that day because there was no oncoming car. He didn't lurch into another rider but rode right across the oncoming lane. Tony Martin did not crash into the rider to his right intentionally to body check him.

    There was no malice in his movement. His mistake was not minding his front wheel, which is the job of every rider on every group ride from the local ride in VA Beach to the TdF being the Maillot Jaune.
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Saab is right on with this assessment. He tried and tried to save it, just catching the tip of his wheel on the rear of the guy in front. Once you do that you're leaning and leaning harder and harder into that front wheel trying to leverage yourself back to the left...only the wheel let go when the guy in front gained that 2" they were overlapped and Martin went shooting right.
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    He got his wheel caught on the rear wheel of the rider in front and was leaning right. When it came uncaught he fell into the rider to his right. He didn't body check anyone. He fell into the rider to his right. Anyone who has ever raced can see this.
    Double move is the key word. He pushed , bumped intensionally from the hips.
    Problem these days is people like feel good stories, and are afraid to call a spade a spade . This was a dirty move, that took out Froome, Nibali ,Quintana and others.
    btw did race myself ( not at that level) don't see what that got to do with it.
    edit Hope Steve Tilford will address it. Would take his word for it.
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Double move is the key word. He pushed , bumped intensionally from the hips.
    Problem these days is people like feel good stories, and are afraid to call a spade a spade . This was a dirty move, that took out Froome, Nibali ,Quintana and others.
    btw did race myself ( not at that level) don't see what that got to do with it.
    edit Hope Steve Tilford will address it. Would take his word for it.
    When his torso sticks out to the right, it is because he is trying to offset the disrupted balance of his bike and prevent it from going slightly right into the wheel in front of him. It happens to me every time I daydream and find myself too close to the edge of the road--it's an emergency reaction that fails as much as it works. In Martin's case, the jerkiness of that first move and space closing down in front of him makes it pretty clear what happened.

    Calling that a body check expresses exceptionally low regard for Martin's body-checking ability and extremely high regard for both his balance and taste for random acts of violence at high speeds. Arbitrarily so in each case, IMHO.
     

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    Default Re: 2015 TdF - Results/Spoilers Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Double move is the key word. He pushed , bumped intensionally from the hips.
    Problem these days is people like feel good stories, and are afraid to call a spade a spade . This was a dirty move, that took out Froome, Nibali ,Quintana and others.
    btw did race myself ( not at that level) don't see what that got to do with it.
    edit Hope Steve Tilford will address it. Would take his word for it.
    If you look at the replay frame by frame, you'll see both the rider in front and the rider behind Martin react as Martin moves right, as if the rear and front (respectively) wheels on their bikes touched Martin's wheels. So I think what you are attributing to a hip check is Martin moving his upper body right (1st move,) as his wheels get hung up on the other two bikes and then pulling his bike through a tight spot with a bit of hip "english" (2nd move) when the space opens enough to do so. His bike goes down when it hooks some part of one of the crashed bikes.

    Or wait for Steve Tilford to write it up.

    I think the question should be if Martin had not gone down in the crash and broken his collarbone but remained upright and healthy would he have been relegated for dangerous racing? I don't think he would have. I don't think this move is dirty or even negligent. Just self-preservation failed.
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