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Thread: new frame, back pain

  1. #41
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    If riding comfortably and in control requires me to put some ridiculous 32mm offset post or somesuch nonsense, this frame is not for me so I will be selling it and back on the market for a frame that fits me and fits in my budget. Vacations are more expensive than bike stuff, but making my wife happy is priceless.
    Totally agree with the second part of that post, about the happy wife.

    But I fail to see why a 32mm setback post is ridiculous... You went from a frame with a 72 seat tube angle to 74. That's a pretty big jump forward. Yes, the new frame might not be for you, and that's fine. But there's nothing wrong with a 10mm more setback than the average post (most setback posts seem to be in the 20-25mm range), if it gets you where you need to be.

    I totally understand that your back is messed up, and yes, you probably need to get that fixed. But I'll reiterate, if the only thing you've changed from your last bike was the saddle position, relative to the BB, then that seems to be the most logical place to start. And buying a post with enough setback to get you back to your original starting point would absolutely be the most cost effective option.

    Buy a post for $50 or so, get your bars back to the relative position where the were on the last bike, and go from there. Or don't, if you really don't want to. I just fail to see why that seems to be the worst option.
    Adam Holt

  2. #42
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    I did manage to get the saddle-bar distance back to wahat I had with a 20mm offset post. It's close enough that it should be fine in that regard.

    I am under the impression that fixing a reach issue with saddle offset is not the best way to do it. At what point does pushing my saddle back affects my CoG? That will be crucial on a mountain bike. I am medium hieght and have average proportions, so this riding this requires a freakish seatpost, it's best that I find something that works better.

    The ETT on this frame seemed very short when I first saw it. Is that due to some interaction with the stack, or did they just design it to be short? Seems weird an age of bikes with slack HTAs, short stems, and long top tubes. Most meduim frames similar to this bike are 10mm or so longer.
    Jonathan - Austin, TX
    A Thorn in Your Sidewall

  3. #43
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    At what point does pushing my saddle back affects my CoG? That will be crucial on a mountain bike
    Why would it be that crucial ? Any CoG difference would be very small and anything really technical is done out of the saddle on a mountain bike.
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    T h o m a s

  4. #44
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I did manage to get the saddle-bar distance back to wahat I had with a 20mm offset post. It's close enough that it should be fine in that regard.

    I am under the impression that fixing a reach issue with saddle offset is not the best way to do it. At what point does pushing my saddle back affects my CoG? That will be crucial on a mountain bike. I am medium hieght and have average proportions, so this riding this requires a freakish seatpost, it's best that I find something that works better.

    The ETT on this frame seemed very short when I first saw it. Is that due to some interaction with the stack, or did they just design it to be short? Seems weird an age of bikes with slack HTAs, short stems, and long top tubes. Most meduim frames similar to this bike are 10mm or so longer.
    10mm is far from freakish. If you have a back problem, that overrides the fact that you are average heights and proportions. Unless this bike has insanely shorter chainstays, it wont effect your COG over the rear wheel much. So all you are really looking at moving your saddle bars back so you are in the same location over your BB as you were before.

    Also saddle location has no importance to reach (BB to HT) I'm assuming your current reach is longer than your old one, so the shorter stem will solve that, the more setback post will solve the ST angle.

    I dont have confidence this will solve anything, but I just wanted to explain that this isn't a crazy proposal.

    Or just sell it if you want.
    --------------------
    another jaunt
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    My chiro showed me the same issues that a previous chiro told me a few years ago (had to leave his care due to insurance issues/ being broke). My spine/ back is pretty effed up. No amount of bike fit adjustments is going to fix that. My chiro also does massage, has a physical therapist on staff, and is a singlespeed mountain biker himself. He also does bike fits. Several SSmtb guys I know go to him to keep from destroying their middle-aged backs, so i think I am in good hands.
    That's great and good to hear. It does sound like you're in good hands!

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have taken a little break from riding and I am on vacation anyways, so I have not had time to see how my body is doing now. I will see how the adjustments and exercises/ stretches I am learning at his office help. Then address the finer points of my bike fit. If riding comfortably and in control requires me to put some ridiculous 32mm offset post or somesuch nonsense, this frame is not for me so I will be selling it and back on the market for a frame that fits me and fits in my budget. Vacations are more expensive than bike stuff, but making my wife happy is priceless.
    The exercises and stretches will take time but I'd put money on that part that it will help you long term. Stuff like this can go for a long time without any repercussions. Then something is just enough to throw everything into a downward spiral where you just can't ignore it any longer. I have lower back issues as well around L1 / L2. Just seeing someone about proper posture both sitting, standing and "how" to move, and then consciously making an effort to correct my bad habits made huge improvements in my daily well being.

    Good luck though. You'll figure it out. It may just be a case of the bike plain just not fitting. That does happen.



    Quote Originally Posted by dogrange View Post
    Hey Kris, do you have different saddle setback on a HT mountain bike (trail riding) versus your road bike?


    Yes (Sagged): My mountain set back is different than my road set backs. However un-sagged, they're almost identical.

    My saddle height is lower on my mountain bike than my road bike however. But the distance from saddle tip to just about the hoods on my road bike is really close to saddle tip to bars on my mountain bike. Bottom bracket drops are both really different too as well as my relation to the rear wheel. Keep in mind body positioning is a bit different between mountain bikes and road bikes and hence a bunch of these numbers can be a bit nebulous as references.

    EDIT: Reach and Stack can be a bit misleading. Especially if a hardtail doesn't fit you and you're trying to problem solve where the saddle sits in space with relation to the handlebars and two bikes have different seat tube angles and bottom bracket drops.
    Kristofer Henry : 44 BIKES : Made to Shred™
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: new frame, back pain

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I did manage to get the saddle-bar distance back to wahat I had with a 20mm offset post. It's close enough that it should be fine in that regard.

    I am under the impression that fixing a reach issue with saddle offset is not the best way to do it. At what point does pushing my saddle back affects my CoG? That will be crucial on a mountain bike. I am medium hieght and have average proportions, so this riding this requires a freakish seatpost, it's best that I find something that works better.

    The ETT on this frame seemed very short when I first saw it. Is that due to some interaction with the stack, or did they just design it to be short? Seems weird an age of bikes with slack HTAs, short stems, and long top tubes. Most meduim frames similar to this bike are 10mm or so longer.
    A few last thoughts (I hope I'm not coming across as a know-it-all, because I certainly don't know it all - I'm just trying to help you get back to where you were, before you were hurting)...
    1. You're not "fixing a reach issue with saddle offset" - rather, you're putting your hips and your body's center of mass in the same place (relative to the BB - that's the important part) that you did on your last bike. That's matching your old pedaling mechanics and balance, and I wouldn't even think about saddle-bar "reach" until you fix that point.
    2. Once that's done, you then match your old reach - saddle-bars - by choosing (and changing if necessary) the required stem length, and bar rise/sweep/width. That's what puts your reach back where it was.

    Fore/aft balance is determined by placing the saddle where it was before (in space) relative to the center of the BB. Reach is then determined (after the saddle position is sorted) by stems and bars. If, at that point, you've got a really extreme stem length or rise/drop, then yes, perhaps the frame just doesn't fit. But I'll reiterate, 32mm setback is not necessarily "freakish" when you're on such a steep seat tube. It's just putting the saddle in the same position (relative to the BB) that it was on your old bike.

    Perhaps, when you get to that position, you'll decide you don't like the way the new bike handles, and that's fine. Maybe it's not the frame for you. It certainly wouldn't be the frame for me - I tend to ride a 72ish seat angle with a 32mm setback post - on all my bikes - so the only way I could ride a 74 seat angle comfortably would be with a 50mm setback post - at which point I would agree with you and consider it "freakish".

    All I'm really trying to say is that you can't really claim to have matched your old position until you start from point A, which is putting your saddle exactly where it was before - seatpost setback number be damned - and going from there. You might be able to create the same saddle-bar distance by changing the stem length, but your pedaling mechanics, your body's center of mass, your balance, (and hence, the strain on your back and hamstrings), won't be the same as it was before - until you focus on matching the saddle position.
    Adam Holt

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