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Thread: Swimming: clues needed

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Howdy, I've jumped into masters swim three days a week. Had to stop yoga or I'd fold, too much fun?

    My troubles with shortness of breath are slowly going away. It really is freaky, one lap I'm out of breath than after 20 mins. of lap/rest/lap/rest I remember to relax head down and take a extra gulp of air and I start to feel more normal.

    Swimming is a real butt kicker. You can be in phenomenal shape otherwise and it means boo in the pool.

    Short fins are a help and I take them off for about 25% of the time but for now they allow me the headspace to focus on technique and being relaxed.

    I can't be good at everything APPARENTLY!!!! Ouch.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    how often are you breathing? 25 strokes down the pool ... is that 12 breaths? 8? 1?
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    how often are you breathing? 25 strokes down the pool ... is that 12 breaths? 8? 1?
    Every third arm: R/L/R and breath on right

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    to be fair, my swim team days were in the 90s, so surely there have been advances. that said, i always found it odd to only breath on one side. like any repetitive action where things get lopsided. have you tried every 4th and alternating sides?
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    to be fair, my swim team days were in the 90s, so surely there have been advances. that said, i always found it odd to only breath on one side. like any repetitive action where things get lopsided. have you tried every 4th and alternating sides?
    My little brain is not ready for change...I'll try it. Last two times I've been doing "catch up" freestyle and breathing on both sides: stroke...kick kick kick kick breath...other arm...rinse and repeat. That is similar yes?

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Watch this, focus on the guy in the middle (Grant Hackett, possibly the best distance swimmer ever).



    32 strokes per 50m length (in under 30 seconds), every time.

    Note the glide and catch at the beginning of each stroke, that's what allows him to get 1.5 metres per stroke (well that plus years of training and enormous strength)

    Note the elbow position: best thing anyone ever told me was to imagine I had an eyeball on each elbow, that eyeball had to be able to see the sky at all times.

    Note the head position: many swimmers who are worried about breathing hold their heads up too high. Get your head down properly and your bow wave will make breathing
    space.

    Lastly, note that he doesn't use his legs much. Most people coming from running / cycling kick too much. The lazy "dogshit" kick is more effective and less tiring: imagine you have dogshit on your foot and you are trying to kick it off. That's the action you use for swimming.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    VERY helpful Mark. Thanks.

    *Wow he barely kicks. I'm kicking about 10 times more!
    Last edited by Too Tall; 06-16-2018 at 06:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    My little brain is not ready for change...I'll try it. Last two times I've been doing "catch up" freestyle and breathing on both sides: stroke...kick kick kick kick breath...other arm...rinse and repeat. That is similar yes?
    thoughts ...

    1) without seeing you, its hard to know if we're thinking the same thing and describing it differently. it sounds like traditionally you were doing r(b), l, r(b), l, r(b). i am thinking r(b), l, r, l(b), r, l, r(b). its very natural once you are in a groove. works well at the beginning of a training session or beginning of a race. later in training or a race if you are starving most people give up and breathe every right or every left.

    2) is your head rotated looking down at the floor or straight ahead at the wall? most novice swimmers look down and when the water crests their head they move their head up. that screws their hip position and the whole thing goes to shit. in the grant hackett video notice he's looking straight ahead. that lets him leave his head down without the water cresting so his hips can stay up. make sense?

    3) the way i think of it and maybe no one will agree with me ... stuff some foam between your legs and get the arms and breathing right without kicking. get the arms right and the kicking will be fine.

    4) you can do a flip turn with the foam between your legs. its fine.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    I'm just starting again because I blew out my knee on a long ride and swimming is the only thing that has been effective in correcting that.

    I have never been able to breathe on my left, I have tried to work on it. When I was swimming a lot, I really wanted to go a little further between breaths, but never could alternate.

    That stoke motion is pretty interesting, I'll have to try it. Either that, or just stay out of the pool when the swim team is there. Getting passed 3 times a length by a 6 year old is really demotivating.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    OK I'll work on this Monday. Thanks boys.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Every third arm: R/L/R and breath on right
    yep. breathe to BOTH sides. it evens out your stroke and reduces the chance of injury on longer sets. once the cardio gets better, you can do 3-2-3 as well. LOTS of distance swimmers use this method.

    signed, ex swim coach guy.
    Ethan Yotter
    former wrench

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    For me, the ability to breathe from either side was critical in open-water swimming to avoid issues with waves, sunlight, or needing to get a quick gulp of air because I got clubbed by another swimmer when I came up for air on whichever side...

    My standard stroke was rather unorthodox, though: R(b)-L-R(b)-L-R-L(b)-R-L(b)-R-L-R(b)... (two on each side before switching)
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    GREAT stuff everyone's suggestions are helping.
    Mark > Last two times I have been forcing myself to keep my head down, use my long ape arms to glide / catch also reduced my vigorous kick to a mere flutter. When I get it right it feels like I'm falling forward (good) and am able to breath into a space created by the wake. It all falls apart but positive signs are there :) I'm determined to get this.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Lots of short intervals. Keep the form fresh. Stop before it falls apart and take a short rest. Hit it again after a few seconds of reset.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    Lots of short intervals. Keep the form fresh. Stop before it falls apart and take a short rest. Hit it again after a few seconds of reset.
    Thanks D. Tomorrow morning 6 am I'll be at it again. Of note, many of the early morning crowd rides a bike to the pool. I donated a 20 position bike rack a few years ago to help keep the riders bikes in order...nobody uses it wah wah.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    When I get it right it feels like I'm falling forward (good) and am able to breath into a space created by the wake. It all falls apart but positive signs are there :) I'm determined to get this.
    Sounds promising. I agree with Dave above, it's not worth practising bad form.

    One thing you might try is throwing in the occasional lap of DPS (distance per stroke), where you don't worry about anything other than trying to get to the other end using the fewest strokes. I found this the best way of giving myself time to develop a better "feel" for the water.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kelly View Post
    Sounds promising. I agree with Dave above, it's not worth practising bad form.

    One thing you might try is throwing in the occasional lap of DPS (distance per stroke), where you don't worry about anything other than trying to get to the other end using the fewest strokes. I found this the best way of giving myself time to develop a better "feel" for the water.
    Interesting you say that. Two things today. Coach tells me to speed up my kick to get my hips and legs up and overall less drag. Also, I was focused on what you said to use loooong arm extensions and relax relax glide glide. When the speed came up breathing was quite alot easier and I doubled my laps before having to take a wall break. All this takes time to adapt and muscle memory blah blah but yeah the clues and tips are definitely working.

    Adding 5 min. each day to lap swimming or die trying.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Hey Josh, I'm not a swimmer but joined a pool for 3 months for kneehab. Here's what I've learned.

    For a week I dicked around and dog paddled about 10 lengths. When my physio asked if I was swimming 40 lengths I thought oh shit I'm failing.

    So I bought a frontal snorkel and short fins. Buy a synchronized swimming nose clip and thank me later as this is indispensable with the snorkel.

    The key for me was learning to relax my shoulders. I started lifting weights but it was too much and I had to switch to kickboard only for a week but after ditching upper body weights my shoulders haven't been a problem.

    I've gotten accustomed to swimming 64 x 25m every time I jump in the pool which is almost every day. I swim a mile nonstop in about 25 minutes.

    I try to let the fins propel me and rotate on an axle slightly for my crawl. If my form wanes drastically I stop and defog my goggles and start back after a short breather.

    The Salon wasn't recommending this but it's what I like most. I haven't tried hand paddles but all the stud swimmers I see have them in their arsenal especially for distance.

    I've only got 10 days left but I've really enjoyed swimming the last few months. It's been nice to find the rhythm to bang out a mile in the water comfortably. And I mixed it up, some days I swam sprints and other days cut it short, but my go-to workout is 64 lengths at my rhythm.

    I would suggest trying a snorkel and seeing how you like focusing on your form and the cardio. Or even warmup and cool down with a snorkel but I highly recommend it even though I felt like I was committing the aquatic equivalent of e-biking.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Noted Hollis. Honest, the snorkel might be a bit much for this tradionalist knuckledragger. I'm taking note of your own determination and learn from that.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Noted Hollis. Honest, the snorkel might be a bit much for this tradionalist knuckledragger. I'm taking note of your own determination and learn from that.
    To put it another way swimming with a frontal snorkel is a lot like riding a track bike on the velodrome. No brakes nor shifting just your legs. I've only ridden on a velodrome once but it was beautiful.

    Just got back from swimming 64 and was thinking about you most of the time Josh. You have to do it and report back. If I lived in DC I would bribe you with some hot stuff (cafe) but this is an order.
     

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