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Thread: Swimming: clues needed

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    My uncle is a masters swimmer. Mel Goldstein. He once told me swimming is like your shoulders trying to run away from your hips while being chased by your feet. Or something like that. I can't remember the exact quote. Anyway, he wrote a book about his technique called Swimming Past 50. Check it out. I don't think it is in print, but I've been able to find a copy for others with a little searching. Supposed to be a good book but too advanced for me. No chapters on dog paddling or the perfect cannonball, which admittedly is sort of the antithesis of swimming.
    Jorn Ake
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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Thanks Justin and Jorn, gives me some homework. Justin, my flippers were almost too much "stuff" for me. I hate going all in with new pursuits until I earn it so for now it's me, the water, elbows and occasional fins ;) I get it, the bouys make a ton of sense. I'll need some time to adjust my head first.
    Justin, thanks again for the links. Now I understand why I hate my fins. Got the wrong ones, they are too long. Arrg.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Josh -- the TI videos have great stuff for keeping your head down... Definitely worth a watch.
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by rauce View Post
    The "S" pull that people used to teach is not something you want to do.
    What doesn't get taught, for whatever reason, is that the "S" is real, but it's a result of body roll, not something you want your hands to do actively.
    DT

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    You are a pretty smart guy Mr. Too Tall. You know fitness, you know coaching, you are a rockfish. I swam grade school, high school, college and coached/taught more folks than I can remember on a professional basis. The basic rules for swimming are simple... efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. The water in way more dense than the air you cut thru riding. As tall as you are, you should have a huge long stroke. No matter how fit the individual is, you can waste more energy in the water than you can possibly dream about. The only way to get better is to spend quality time in the pool. Get an instructor/coach, swim with the masters and spend as much time in the water as you once did on the bike. Shitty practice makes a shitty swimmer. Find someone who is good to look at your stroke weekly for a year and you will be way better if you swim 3-5 days a week. Just going to a big masters program where the coach can not spend time on you will not work nearly as well as someone who will change one small thing weekly with your stroke. Wake up a year later and you are a way better swimmer. Fact those words are.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Good stuff Moke. I do have a coach who I have not used yet this year. My intermediate goal prior to seeing him are in the above comments....I need to relax and get comfortable swimming than I will allow myself to see coach who is just as you describe. He sees small things than tortures me with drills ;)

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    That is my formula. To change one little thing in your stroke. Do three practice sessions thinking about that one thing to make it a habit. Then I change one other part of the stroke and repeat until the stroke looks good then hit the masters program for the volume with a couple time a month look see session. I have guys that I literally taught to swim 30 years ago that are better swimmers than I am now. They have probably almost as much or possibly more swimming miles under them then I had from 9 years old to out of college
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Every time I see the title of this thread I read it as Swimming Poll Q's and then have flash backs to the The Swimming Pool Q's - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sorry for the interruption...back to the regular scheduled program. Or something to listen to while holding your breath.

    Brian McLaughlin

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Good things to report. Slow but steady progress. Using fins I've discovered a nice two beat kick that supports me not over taxing aerobic ability. Also, if I snap my face sooner for a breath I can get more air in and out with each stroke.

    Queen has seen me standing in the pool wheezing barely able to breath, so there is still something weird about my lungs and swimming. That issue is getting better as I'm getting more relax with a basic freestyle.

    Yeah rah me :)

    Sadly, I've graduated from boards shorts to Jammers. All hope is lost.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    I'm sure you're already doing this, but sometimes people forget -- make sure you're completely exhaling while your face is in the water so that you have the full time while it's out to fully inhale.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    I'm breathing out so hard sometimes I engage intercostals!!!
    Thanks, all these clues are helping.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    I'm sure you're already doing this, but sometimes people forget -- make sure you're completely exhaling while your face is in the water so that you have the full time while it's out to fully inhale.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    It seems the "swimmer's body" is the exact opposite of the cyclist's body: large and long torso, short legs and big hands. I read this the other day.
    I came here for the socks.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    David is 100% on with his blow out before you can breath in. Swimming is a odd sport in that you really have to control your breathing. Holding breath for push offs,being sure to blow out your residual lung volume so you can take a deeper breath quickly, and timing your breathing with your body position and stroke. That is just stuff you don't think about that much in a lot of sports. Glad to see you hanging in there Mr. Tall.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Caleb - NO! Does not happen with backstroke.
    Just seeing this now, TT.

    I think all the technique stuff is good, but in addition I think there's a physiological adjustment when dryland athletes get in the pool. Through exercise, we've taught our bodies that oxygen isn't scarce, it's the intake and processing of it that are limiting. Simply put, to get the fuel to go hard, we breathe hard. When you get in the pool you can't do that, and your body freaks out because it's physiologically unsure how to respond. Backstroke is the one exception because your face is out of the water and you can breathe "normally."

    I'm not a coach or trainer, but for me and people I've trained with, a physiological and mental adjustment comes with volume. It comes faster by doing group workouts at a higher intensity where the social element and the ever-present clock get you outside of your own head, and you also have to push your body anaerobic. An added bonus is that technique seems to me to come easier at higher speeds, basically the opposite of every other sport where technique breaks down at speed.

    Anyway, I'd suggest jumping in some workouts where you're swimming intervals with a group, enough people to be circle swimming to keep your mind occupied. Your mileage may vary, but I suspect that soon you'll start to feel stronger and more confident as your body learns that the correct response to stress isn't to breathe more rapidly, but rather to efficiently make use of all the oxygen it gets. Sort of a tough love strategy with your bio processes, I guess.
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Caleb, fantastic observation. With your words on my mind and reflection on how I felt doing sprints against my lovely wife you might be right. At the very least it is a part of the algorithm. I've set a goal to jump into masters swim next season.

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    It must be a personal thing. My technique at slow speeds isn't bad. But it falls apart entirely when I speed up...
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    What helped me most:
    - try to swim downhill, water surface tension provides resistance. the more you are under water the better
    - relax
    - smooth, avoid turbulance, minimize kick excursion
    - swim with fistgloves twice a week

    PS: Josh, can you link to the running thread you mention?
     

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...t=running+sand

    Boss, lots of good stuff in that thread. The one thing, well two things, that got me "there" were to stop running on my forefoot and have extreme patience to adapt. This is in hindsight and that said I made a ton of mistakes with setbacks due to tearing up my calves.

    At the point where I finally was able to run it was like a light bulb in a dim room, finally I quit trying to be a superstar and "just run" to adapt. Now I'm running to maintain my legs and not fall back into the same trap.

    FWIIW If you can find a good Chi running coach, do it.

    OK, back to swimming.
    Quote Originally Posted by CXinNH View Post
    What helped me most:
    - try to swim downhill, water surface tension provides resistance. the more you are under water the better
    - relax
    - smooth, avoid turbulance, minimize kick excursion
    - swim with fistgloves twice a week

    PS: Josh, can you link to the running thread you mention?

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    swimmer and former coach here. a few tips:
    kick with the whole leg. swimming specific fins can help teach this.
    on freestyle/backstroke (long axis strokes) body roll is key- as in on freestyle when you're taking your breath, the opposite shoulder should be aimed towards the bottom. other than that, the head should be still.
    Ethan Yotter
    former wrench

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    Default Re: Swimming: clues needed

    Thanks Ethan. I get that now, the fins have been a huge help. I'm using fins in the middle of my swim each day.

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