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Thread: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Is there a "medium" so to speak? or is this type of body/diet adaptation an all-or-nothing?
    Matt Moore
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Aside from my go-to homemade bars and nut butter, I've got a few recipes if you're interested - they're all vegan, which may or may not be appealing, but I'm happy to share any of the following: grain-free granola, flaxseed waffles, no-bake bars, flaxmeal porridge, hemp-heart pudding... the list goes on but in short, I try to do things that can be made in advance since, like most cyclists, I tend to ride in the morning when the roads are empty and I can be done before work. No one wants to be cooking pancakes at 5h30..


    Quote Originally Posted by Hellafab View Post
    Is there a "medium" so to speak? or is this type of body/diet adaptation an all-or-nothing?
    It's been well-shown that you can increase your utilization of fat as a fuel source through dietary control, but most of the benefits require full conversion.
    "Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."


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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    So what is your take on fruit? Is it a sugar/carbs source to be avoided or good natural vitamin sources?
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    So what is your take on fruit? Is it a sugar/carbs source to be avoided or good natural vitamin sources?
    Definitely a good and necessary vitamin source. I don't really believe in multivitamins and have never had my bloodwork show the need for them - in the words of a former doctor of mine, "vitamin supplements are a great way to make expensive piss." Eat a diverse diet full of vegetables and fruit and you're all set.

    But to actually answer your question: just work them into your diet with the knowledge that yes, they are more carbohydrate dense than a lot of other food sources. Choose the ones that are low in net-carbohydrates (ignore total carbohydrate, it's a relatively useless figure). Of course, each individual's metabolism, size and nutrient-timing will determine exactly how many grams of net carbs you can get away with per day and still stay ketogenic, but some examples of low-carbohydrate fruits are apricots, avocados (also an excellent fat source), rhubarb, strawberries, raspberries, kiwi and cherries.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octave View Post
    Choose the ones that are low in net-carbohydrates (ignore total carbohydrate, it's a relatively useless figure).
    This is something i wanted to ask.

    Total Carbohydrate - Fiber = Net carbohydrate

    is my understanding correct?

    Next, how do you kind of gauge say how much net carb is in a banana? A cup of broccoli? Something not really measured is what I'm curious about. A phone app is what I've read people using.

    But i bring this up because I remember reading about bananas being very high in carbohydrates/polysaccharide until it gets almost over ripe, speckled with brown is when some sort of conversion happens and the poly turns to monosaccharide.
    justin rogers.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by EightySixer View Post
    This is something i wanted to ask.

    Total Carbohydrate - Fiber = Net carbohydrate
    Total carbohydrate - non-digestible carbohydrate (i.e. fiber + sugar alcohols) = net carbohydrate. The latter of those two non-digestible carbohydrates is why you see a lot of marketed protein bars filled with sugar-alcohols. There's nothing wrong with them, and they still hit taste-buds in a sweet way, but apparently they give some people digestive issues. Never had a problem myself, but I rarely encounter them in packaged food so take that with a grain of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightySixer View Post
    Next, how do you kind of gauge say how much net carb is in a banana? A cup of broccoli? Something not really measured is what I'm curious about. A phone app is what I've read people using.
    When I briefly tracked my diet closely, I used nutritiondata.self.com which is pretty comprehensive, then I just did the math myself. There are plenty of apps that people like though, like myfitnesspal. What you use depends on how complex and diverse your diet is. For me it was relatively easy because I don't make a lot of 20-ingredient dishes and I basically never eat out, but I can imagine it gets pretty complicated if you do either of those (especially the latter, save for major chain food which in some countries is legally bound to publishing that info).

    But i bring this up because I remember reading about bananas being very high in carbohydrates/polysaccharide until it gets almost over ripe, speckled with brown is when some sort of conversion happens and the poly turns to monosaccharide.
    Here's the oft-cited paper you're talking about (or that most people are referring to when they talk about this). As you've probably noticed, unripe bananas (and indeed, unripe fruit in general) is a lot less sweet than ripe fruit. During ripening a lot of the carbohydrates are converted into more readily digestible sugars. In theory then, if you wanted to take advantage of the nice vitamins, phytonutrients etc. that are in fruit without spiking your blood sugar you could eat green bananas and other unripe fruit.
    "Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."


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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    This thread is awesome.

    Where I first saw that was from the Elaine Gottschall book "Breaking The Vicious Cycle" outlining her specific carbohydrate diet. I think I still have some residual mentality from the year I followed that plan left over in my mental assessments of good/bad.

    Great information, thank you.
    justin rogers.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    so is bulletproof coffee legit for breakfast?
    -Dustin

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Fat-adapted training, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by dashDustin View Post
    so is bulletproof coffee legit for breakfast?
    Yes with a caveat or two...

    - If you do this for breakfast in place of something more nutritionally diverse, you're probably missing out on a good opportunity to get some vitamins, phytonutrients..etc. If you're counting calories, having 400kCal of butter in place of say, 400kCal of nuts/seeds/oil/fruit combination, leaves you with 0 fiber, very little or no vitamins and nutrients (although some studies have shown that grass-fed butter is higher in some nutrients than your average butter) as opposed to an opportunity to give your body some love.

    - Fat diversity is important, and butter is very high in saturated fat, which is not great in high excess. It's not the demon it was once made out to be, but it's also not great in massive quantities.

    - In fairness I've only tried this as a vegan, so I can't comment on whether or not it tastes good with quality, grass-fed butter, but I find it to be pretty far from palatable... I love good coffee, and there are few more direct ways to ruin it than sticking it in a blender with butter.


    ... that all being said, caffeine + fat + MCT oil will qualify as a keto-friendly way to start the day, especially if you're the kind of person who doesn't enjoy or can't stomach, much in the morning.
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