User Tag List

Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    1,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    There are a lot of variables here and realistically I don't expect concrete answers without taking steps that I, frankly, probably won't take. What I'm probably looking for is validation or similar experiences.

    I wrecked my bike pretty bad last year which resulted in almost zero riding, or much exercise at all for that matter, for about eight months. A predictable combination of 45 y/o male existential crisis/self loathing/depression took it's toll over those months and I gained about 30lb without even trying. That's my super power these days...gaining weight while eating rabbit food.

    Since April, I've been doing 2-3 rides per week, at least one of them "hard" (for me that's >15mi of mountain biking with over 3000ft of climbing and with my HR averaging 160 or higher), and lifting 2-3 times per week. At first, I was doing as much volume as I could as long as it wasn't impeding my shoulder and back rehab but now that my shoulder is better, I've upped the weight and have been doing ~60% of max, 3 work sets with max reps and then accessory lifts that focus on shoulder stability. I still can't do much that loads my back, so leg work has mostly been intervals on the bike, stair climbing and leg extensions and curls with lowish weight and ~20 reps. Each workout starts with a 40min warmup on a bike at a fairly low HR of ~130. I've been trying to maintain a calorie deficit so that I'm losing 1-2lb per week which has mostly been going well.

    The other variable here are severe seasonal allergies.

    I ride with HR and power and have noticed this month that at a given HR, say 165, my power output is far less than what it should be and seems to be getting worse with each ride. I took nearly the whole week off last week. Easy ride on Friday, heavy lifting Sunday night (chest and back) with no accessory movements and then I rode yesterday and felt like absolute shit. Granted it was 40° hotter than my last ride but I can typically hold about ~260 watts at ~165BPM for the 35min road climb to the trail head. Power has been dropping over the last month by a few percent each ride and yesterday I was at ~220watts at ~165bpm over the first 2/3 so I backed off for the last third because I had a certain ride planned for the day. On my second trip up the hill, I stopped for a minute, which isn't a thing I'd normally do. My output dropped to ~180 with my HR creeping up to 165 and I think it hurt more mentally than physically.

    These past 2-3 weeks, I've just been amazingly tired all the time and can't seem to snap out of it.

    With all that, what's the right path forward here? I don't feel overtrained in the way that I know I have been a few times in the past but at the same time, I realize that as I age my ability to recover is slowing down. I still have about 15lb to go before I feel comfortable (and then 15 after that to get to an adjusted "ideal" weight) but feel like I'm just not capable of pushing past this sticking point that I've hit. I've not hit the point where hard physical work releases endorphins like it has in the past, this just always feels like a trudge.
    Sean Chaney
    www.vertigocycles.com
    a peek behind the curtain

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    SC PA
    Posts
    777
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    I found myself sedentary and 25 lbs over where i wanted to be a few years ago in my early 40s. I kept my (decent) diet largely the same and tried to lose it via exercise. Goal was to ride my bike 100 times/year. I ended up doing about 125 rides and it took about a year to lose 20 lbs. when I multiplied the hours i had exercised during that by the average expected caloric expenditure, I was within 2 lbs of what I had actually lost.

    Being in a caloric deficit while riding a comparative lot would have been hard. I do eat a lot of healthy fats (nuts) and protein these days which really helps with satiety. The whole idea of 'just eat less to lose weight' is pretty much a myth - the body is much happier holding on to excess weight for the next famine than it is to lose it freely. I will also reluctantly admit that I used to just think 'could lose a couple pounds' and the weight would melt off. That seems not to be the case for me anymore.

    So I would temper the weight loss expectation. 1.5-2 lbs a week consistently is pretty aggressive. Also, find a diet that works for you; i.e., that induces slight hypocaloric state the you are happy to consume.

    You may also be getting anemic/sick (allergies? meds?) but we're not going to fix that here ;-)
     

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fairfax, California
    Posts
    2,635
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    It could be something as simple as being dehydrated or under-fueled.
    You mention ~165 hr and ~260 watts. Do you consider this a hard effort? Or more like a tempo effort?
    What is your max heartrate? What is a heartrate that you attribute to a "hard effort"?
     

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Stow, MA
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    At ~45 perhaps more recovery could help... If you are breaking down more than you can rebuild it just goes downhill...
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    “I don’t understand why anyone goes to all the trouble of running for President of the United States to tell us what we can’t do and shouldn’t fight for.”
    Elizabeth Warren

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,647
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Power dropping while continuing to train is usually a sign of either getting sick or needing rest. I'm a firm believer in the need for periodic rest. I've learned in the past couple of years of the benefit of 1 - 2 weeks completely off the bike once or twice a year. I was off the bike for 2 solid weeks last August while in Mongolia and, 10-17days after returning and patiently reacclimating to riding the bike, I found my best form of the year.

    You might try some real time off the bike and see what happens. You might be very surprised.
     

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    39
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Uhhh. Sounds like you do gym work on your "off" days. Dug myself a very deep hole that way. Gym work is great, but its a metabolic stressor.
    You either need rest or to get over whatever bug (or lifestress) is doing it to you.
    You could also have chronic carb depletion from trying to pull off the weight.
    But either way, you need to recalibrate.
     

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    SC PA
    Posts
    777
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    1,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Well...I did a ~35mi MTB ride with about 4K feet of climbing on Sunday and have been dealing with the old problem all week. Most of the climbing was front loaded as this was a shuttle that ended with a 6mi downhill. The majority of the riding was above 5,000 ft and I'm particularly sensitive to altitude so even though I felt like I was riding easy, my HR was telling me otherwise.

    Since I've been dizzy this whole week so far, I've not done any exercise. Hopefully the power/HR thing will be sorted by the next time I ride, but if not, at least I'll know that it's not likely to be due to overtraining or a lack of rest.
    Sean Chaney
    www.vertigocycles.com
    a peek behind the curtain

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Given the variables we are aware of, my guess would be the strategy of aggressive cutting weight via caloric deficit while trying to increase fitness is to blame. Your underfueled body is not able to recover, leading to underperformance. I think you will either have to accept that you will continue have shitty days on the bike and approach rides accordingly (nothing over endurance/Z2), or increase your caloric intake (CARBS), at least following bike rides. Your increasing muscle mass via lifting also naturally leads to more base calorie burning to maintain the muscle vs fat. You are basically doing 3 things to cut weight at once...increasing muscle mass, aerobic work, and caloric deficit....eventually something's gotta give. And yes, this can/will affect the mental side, not just the physical (would be surprising if it didn't).
     

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Quote Originally Posted by VertigoCycles View Post
    Well...I did a ~35mi MTB ride with about 4K feet of climbing on Sunday and have been dealing with the old problem all week. Most of the climbing was front loaded as this was a shuttle that ended with a 6mi downhill. The majority of the riding was above 5,000 ft and I'm particularly sensitive to altitude so even though I felt like I was riding easy, my HR was telling me otherwise.

    Since I've been dizzy this whole week so far, I've not done any exercise. Hopefully the power/HR thing will be sorted by the next time I ride, but if not, at least I'll know that it's not likely to be due to overtraining or a lack of rest.
    Not to an alarmist but you want to go to doctor and get checked out. Being dizzy for a week and high HR issues may be due to what everyone is listing or it could be an underlying health issue. You should get checked out and not mess around too much.
    Brian McLaughlin

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    no shore, mass
    Posts
    14,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
    Power dropping while continuing to train is usually a sign of either getting sick or needing rest. I'm a firm believer in the need for periodic rest. I've learned in the past couple of years of the benefit of 1 - 2 weeks completely off the bike once or twice a year. I was off the bike for 2 solid weeks last August while in Mongolia and, 10-17days after returning and patiently reacclimating to riding the bike, I found my best form of the year.

    You might try some real time off the bike and see what happens. You might be very surprised.
    I agree with this.
    Last few years I have taken a bunch of 2 week+ blocks completely off the bike ( traveling mostly ).
    If I lose any form in that period it is slight or incidental.
    I believe the rest is more beneficial than anything as well as the mental break.

    I thk the "training/riding" gets to be overly routine for a lot of people. Habit rather than purpose.

    Other notable here is the age factor... recovery, healing, etc all take much longer as years pile up...
    barring actual sickness ( always possible )... everything takes a lot longer to normalize. Hard efforts take longer to recover from.
    everything takes longer to recover from...and weight just comes which impacts performance as well.

    PS
    I'm not training for anything...I ride cause I like to ride and have a bunch of friends who do also. I just want to maintain enough fitness to
    ride w my friends and do an annual cycling trip to Europe... ( always climbs, ouch )
    Last edited by SteveP; 06-25-2019 at 08:00 AM.
     

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    1,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: diagnosing HR Power mismatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Bewheels View Post
    Not to an alarmist but you want to go to doctor and get checked out. Being dizzy for a week and high HR issues may be due to what everyone is listing or it could be an underlying health issue. You should get checked out and not mess around too much.
    I've been down that road half a dozen times in the past 20 years. It's gone nowhere despite many blood tests, CT scans, MRI's and an ENT who wanted to operate (no thanks.)
    Sean Chaney
    www.vertigocycles.com
    a peek behind the curtain

Similar Threads

  1. Diagnosing Results
    By LarryA in forum Oxygen Depraved
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-17-2019, 05:26 PM
  2. Anybody mismatch tire sizes other than 69er?
    By kindagrouchy in forum Mountain Bikes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-28-2017, 01:01 AM
  3. Old Ti Frame- help diagnosing issues
    By ilikethebike in forum VSalon Pro-Bicycle Tech
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-06-2016, 12:44 PM
  4. Rep Power, again
    By jscottyk in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-23-2013, 08:33 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •