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Thread: White Industries CLD water intrustion

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    Default White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Does anyone have the same experience as me? The front NDS hub bearing gets contaminated with moisture and ruins the bearings.

    Cool design but I'm unable to figure out WHY this happens?

    Oh...I'm not pressure washing or running thru waist deep water.

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    I have noticed the CLD and T11 both seem to go through bearings in the fronts faster than some of my other hubs. The saving grace is how easy it is to press out/in a fresh set.
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Susceptibility to water intrusion seems to be a weakness of White's hubs. They're pretty fantastic hubs otherwise. I wish they would design some better sealing end caps that would be backward compatible, of course.
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Can you just replace the bearings with better sealed model from Boca Bearings? They make some bearings with pretty hefty double seals (their yellow sealed bearings.) I've put them on all my UltraTorque cranks due to the chronic problem of water invasion in the drive side bearing, and once a Boca Bearing is in there, no problems. The website is a bit confusing, but as long as the bearing numbers and measurements line up, everything works perfectly.

    Take a look here - Model Search by Boca Bearings :: Ceramic Bearing Specialists
    Jorn Ake
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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    It's a nice thought Jorn. I'm just going to smash alot of grease into the races and pray for better weather.

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    I don't doubt that there might be some quirk in the hub design. But the weak part of the vast majority of botique-y hubs on the market these days are the Enduro bearings. Yeah, they're easy for shops to buy, and they come in a whole lot of flavours and sizes. But they're almost universally crap. The exceptions aren't the more expensive ones: they're application-specific things like the Max bearings, which do pretty well in suspension pivots. The quality, in fact, seems to be inversely proportionate to the cost: the ABEC-5-rated and ceramic bearings in most the common sizes that I have experience with (6902, 6903, 6806, etc) live significantly shorter lives regardless of the application than the lower-end "ABEC-3" bearings. The C5 (or greater?!) clearances in the ABEC-5 bearings render them useless in DT Swiss or Hope hubs, where there's no way to remove the gobs of play Enduro has to build into the bearing to quality for the ABEC-5 rating.

    At least, that's my take. Rant off. The open secret in good shops is that Mavic sells their bearings individually (or in small, hub-specific kits), and that most high-quality hubs (particularly Hope and DT Swiss) feature sizes you can buy from Mavic. And Mavic has used NTN or SKF or equivalent bearings since the advent of cartridge bearings in bike hubs. The exception are the new I9s (old ones featured amazeballs-quality SKF cartridges). With current I9 you're stuck with sizes you can't get easily except from Enduro, which come stock, and which are garbage. Alas...

    In short, if there's any crossover between WI and Mavic, head down to your LBS and see if you can't get a better-quality bearing to fix the issue.
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Does anyone have the same experience as me? The front NDS hub bearing gets contaminated with moisture and ruins the bearings.

    Cool design but I'm unable to figure out WHY this happens?

    Oh...I'm not pressure washing or running thru waist deep water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Applesauce View Post
    <...snip> The open secret in good shops is that Mavic sells their bearings individually (or in small, hub-specific kits), and that most high-quality hubs (particularly Hope and DT Swiss) feature sizes you can buy from Mavic. And Mavic has used NTN or SKF or equivalent bearings since the advent of cartridge bearings in bike hubs. The exception are the new I9s (old ones featured amazeballs-quality SKF cartridges). With current I9 you're stuck with sizes you can't get easily except from Enduro, which come stock, and which are garbage. Alas...

    In short, if there's any crossover between WI and Mavic, head down to your LBS and see if you can't get a better-quality bearing to fix the issue.
    I have had this issue with WI, another brand, and Mavic (their newest design which have been fantastic). All of these wheelsets are disc and I have noticed that the front disc side bearing that tends to get water. I assume if is from cleaning the bike or riding in the rain and somehow water is getting more easily trapped on that side. No pressure washing is involved. I first discovered it because I could feel some crunchiness when spinning the wheel by hand.
    Popped the seal, smashed in some of the magical NFS Speed grease and they have been great ever since.

    To answer the question:
    - Yes I have experienced this as well with WI hubs and others
    - Not exactly sure what is happening
    - Smashing some NFS grease in there makes everything buttery smooth again
    Brian McLaughlin

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Brian, we put sand in your hubs. It's not your fault.

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    My front XMR hub isn't that smooth these days, FWIW. I'm going to ride it out for a while and then order a new set.
    Weight Doper

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bewheels View Post
    - Smashing some NFS grease in there makes everything buttery smooth again
    All my hubs need work this winter. @Too Tall an order for grease is incoming!

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianWong View Post
    All my hubs need work this winter. @Too Tall an order for grease is incoming!
    I should send W.I. a thank you card?

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    It just occurred to me: it looks like the clearances between the CL lockring tool interface and the axle OD on a lot of hubs are getting super tight, as if manufacturers are trying to use the lockring as a dust seal. (Which is almost smart, and I like the idea that they would give a second purpose to something that has to be there anyway.) The inside of most CL lockrings that Iím familiar with are concave, not really a square 90į (though Iím not sure this matters).

    I suspect whatís happening is that water is penetrating the tool interface, whence it cant escape, and due to the shape of the inside of the lockring will simply get tumbled around, eventually migrating back toward the bearing. Itís possible that a small drain hole toward the outer diameter of the lockring could help (please, no speculative whining about compromising its integrity...). Short of that, Iím not sure how this is going to get solved; a whack of good grease in the cartridge and on its outer surface couldnít hurt. And if users of current Mavic products are having a similar issue, replacing a crappy bearing with a better one wonít solve it. (If Iím right though, itís strange that this hasnít been an ongoing issue on cassette hubs for the last few decades. So this is kind of throwing darts...)
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Here's it's the moon dust we get when it's really dry out.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Applesauce is right, put some higher end bearings in and call it a day.

    I have a customer in AL that rides 17,000+ miles a year, in all sorts of weather. He put two years on a set of WI T11 hubs, when the rims were wore out and needing replacement I went through the hubs and swapped out the bearings in the front. The wheel still spun really well, but the bearings felt a bit dry, so I knew it was just a matter of time before they'd get crunchy.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    Applesauce is right, put some higher end bearings in and call it a day.

    I have a customer in AL that rides 17,000+ miles a year, in all sorts of weather. He put two years on a set of WI T11 hubs, when the rims were wore out and needing replacement I went through the hubs and swapped out the bearings in the front. The wheel still spun really well, but the bearings felt a bit dry, so I knew it was just a matter of time before they'd get crunchy.
    Any suggestions on source for said higher end bearings for lay folks? Every time I search for the said size for WI hubs, I seem to always land on Enduro for at least a couple of the sizes.
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by jscottyk View Post
    Any suggestions on source for said higher end bearings for lay folks? Every time I search for the said size for WI hubs, I seem to always land on Enduro for at least a couple of the sizes.
    I just got some NTN and FAG bearings for my T11's from Hambini Engineering in the UK. He was very fast shipping them out.

    Hambini.com
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    I just got some NTN and FAG bearings for my T11's from Hambini Engineering in the UK. He was very fast shipping them out.

    Hambini.com
    Thanks!
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by jscottyk View Post
    Thanks!
    Have a look at his youtube channel to hear what he has to say about bearings and their design and quality. He has no time for Enduro bearings - "rubbish" he calls them and he explains why he thinks that. Mainly to do with quality and 'bearing clearance'.

    This is a good one to start with

    Very interesting and informative if you have the time to spare.
     

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    What are the bearing dimensions?

    You want OD, ID and thickness, and I bet you can get really good ones in your town - Phil Wood also carries many sizes.

    I just looked them up, and the bearing is a 6901-2rs - google that or take that # to your local shop.

    You guys pry the seals and pack extra in, yeah?


    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 10-15-2018 at 12:00 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: White Industries CLD water intrustion

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    What are the bearing dimensions?

    You want OD, ID and thickness, and I bet you can get really good ones in your town - Phil Wood also carries many sizes.

    I just looked them up, and the bearing is a 6901-2rs - google that or take that # to your local shop.

    You guys pry the seals and pack extra in, yeah?


    - Garro.
    Phil's bearings are simply re-badged NSK bearings, right?
     

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