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Thread: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

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    Default Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    I have been using a Campy Neutron Ultra for a while . Very unreliable with spokes breaking all the time . There is even a thread about it online , it must be a common problem . Anyhow am tired already of changing spokes and fixing the wheel . I like the hub a lot . Am considering changing from the original campagnolo assymetrical rim to a regular dtswiss rr511 rim . Will my hub with a large drive side flange be compatible with a non assymetrical rim ?
     

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    Yes. Asymmetric flange size has no impact on rim compatibility. It may affect your choice of spoke length, so calculate each side separately. Phil Wood rear hubs have asymmetric flanges and they don't specify a particular rim. I'm currently running Phil Wood cassette hubs on two bikes, each with a standard rim, with no issues.

    Your hub WILL need to have the same number of spokes on each flange.

    Also, I'm assuming the spokes are breaking at the rim. I love asymmetric rims, and would suggest you try a Velocity or DT Swiss asymmetric rim to see if you have better luck.

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    Changing rims won't necessarily make for a more reliable wheel.

    How much do you weigh?

    Where are the spokes breaking?

    Who's doing the repair work, and do they actually know what they're doing?

    Looking at the hub, if you do change the rim, make sure the ERD is as close to the original rim as possible to maintain the spoke alignment/cross angles, otherwise you'll have some bending loads on the drive-side spokes because they're captured in that channel. Bending loads are bad.

    Last edited by dgaddis; 09-21-2018 at 12:13 PM.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    They used to break always at the rim mostly drive side . I am probably too heavy for the wheel - 200 lbs plus . I then swapped wheels with my wife who is like 120 pounds. Then she managed to break a spoke before climbing a hill .

    I overhauled the rear wheel twice. Once with a campy replacement spoke kit on a per spoke basis , then now I tried using Pillar spokes that seemed thicker .

    The system of inverted hex nipples , washers and scarcity of straight pull spokes in my country is a pain in the ass . I purchased a park tool tension meter for the spokes. I haven't been successful in making the wheel reliable . I then made local bike mechanic have a go at them . They are not too into using the tension meter and the parktool app . Old school wrenches.

    I like the hub a lot , i put ceramic bearings in them . Very smooth but if I re use it for a new build the deep channels in the drive side flange kind of dictate the angle and lacing of the wheel ?

    I am half deciding whether to just build a completely new rear wheel 28h to 32h campy hub mated to dtswiss rr511

    or

    re use my neutron ultra hub 24h and try to source the spokes and mate it to the dtswiss rr511 or maybe a hplus son archetype rim .

    The front wheel of my neutron ultra has never given me a problem.
     

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    For years I've been a fan of asymmetric rims. The wheels on my main bike now are some Pacenti Forza laced to Wheels Mfg. hubs and they're super nice wheels. You may wish to try to just have a good wheel builder set you up with a new set of wheels with asymmetric rims. I like the Forza because of the internal width but I don't know about availability outside the US.

    Mine are 28 rear, 24 front and my weight is not so far from yours. They were built by Eric of Ergott wheels.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    180lbs, no issues, many hits on Boston roads.

    These and Boras have been my most reliable and best riding wheels.

    The Neutrons remain my favorite “narrow” rim clincher wheels.

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydg View Post
    The system of inverted hex nipples , washers and scarcity of straight pull spokes in my country is a pain in the ass .
    This is another good reason to use another hub. Availability of spare parts is always something to consider when building a wheel.

    Get a conventional hub and build it with an asymmetric rim.

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    I'd ditch the hub personally.

    Those channels in the drive-side - every time you pedal you're putting a bending load on the spokes. Spokes are designed to work in tension, not bending. That bending greatly reduces the fatigue life of the spokes.

    Other than radial lacing I'm really not a fan of straight pull spokes.

    And if you're over 200lbs, I'd definitely go to at least a 28 hole build.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    Neutrons and Nucleons have been the most reliable wheels I have ever owned in 40 years of serious riding. And I've had some really bad and some really good wheels along the way.

    The straight-pull spokes and hidden nipples on Nukes and Newts normally aren't an issue because they do their job without a fuss. A phenomenal design but it does have its limitations. It's a load issue, you're asking too much. If your wife was breaking spokes it's because their time was already up.

    One wheel that Campy made that was heavier duty was the Proton. Asymmetrical rear rim, with the added benefit of j-bend spokes (except right rear) and external nipples.

    The advice to go to someone like Ergott, and to go with 28 spokes or more on a standard hub, is sound. Ditto with the asymmetrical rim, but maybe with the same number of spokes left and right. DT is your friend, but just get out of the 1600-gram neighborhood.
    Tdd Hllnd

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    i would say it's a fool's errand to try and build a more reliable rear wheel for yourself changing the only variable in the equation of the rim.

    how much is the "+" in 200+?

    that hub is part of an engineered wheel system. it's my view that as a heavy dude, once you break one spoke in a wheel system like that, it should be rebuilt entirely, as the broken spoke placed more stress on every other part of the wheel, on an already fairly low spoke count wheel. it's no surprise that once you break one spoke, others will follow. i would not build that hub to any other rim, especially any other rim that changes the overall geometry of the wheel and angles of the spokes.

    i'll echo the others in saying that neutrons have proven to me to be ultra reliable.

    At your weight, start over and have someone, who knows what they are doing build you a more stout rear if you want reliability.

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    Default Re: Question on Hubs and assymetric rim

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydg View Post
    I have been using a Campy Neutron Ultra for a while . Very unreliable with spokes breaking all the time . There is even a thread about it online , it must be a common problem . Anyhow am tired already of changing spokes and fixing the wheel . I like the hub a lot . Am considering changing from the original campagnolo assymetrical rim to a regular dtswiss rr511 rim . Will my hub with a large drive side flange be compatible with a non assymetrical rim ?
    Those wheels work as a whole, you cannot replace the rim only.
    Let's be frank, and don't want to sound rude, but any wheel is as strong as the rider would use it. I have had Pro riders weighting less than 70kg that would thrash most of the wheels you give them, and some 80+kg strong riders (actually, national TT racers) that would never break a spoke. I have neve broke a spoke in 30 years cycling, even when riding Mtb with 28h rims/hubs.
    Of the hundreds of Campag Neutron wheels I've serviced, the percentage that will have recurring spoke breakage is very low. In fact, almost all of them are cured once the wheel is correctly fixed. We use a DT Swiss tensionmeter and lots of common sense here, for all the factory wheels we jot down the spoke tension and/or replicate it by measuring a new one on display.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi cos col dove si puote
    ci che si vuole, e pi non dimandare"

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