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Thread: Potential frame design drawing

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    Default Potential frame design drawing

    Critique please. I am a monkey with long torso/arms and shorter legs but long femur. This drawing was presented to me by an eff builder for approval. I would like some feedback prior to pulling the trigger. Thanks in advance.
    Tim Campen ROAD Design 2019 (1).pdf
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Well, you either trust your builder or you don't. Was the fit determined by you over a long history of finding comfort, by a fitter you trust, or by the builder himself? The numbers themselves would seem to point toward the proportions you described for yourself...
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

    "Sometimes, as good as it feels to speak out, silence is the only way to rise above the morass. The high road is generally a quiet route." -- echelon_john

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    We discussed the fit on my favorite bike (Ritchey Swiss Cross) and he turned those numbers into the drawing. He is across the country from me, and I've never had anything built by him previously. This design incorporates my contact point measures. I think the seat tube angle is quite slack, but then I am not an eff builder or geometry person. I am a bike ridah.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    If the fit numbers coincide with your comfort (the contact points are where you want them), then the rest is about how you want the bike to handle. Not knowing your CG location, I can't make a whole lot of comment beyond that.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

    "Sometimes, as good as it feels to speak out, silence is the only way to rise above the morass. The high road is generally a quiet route." -- echelon_john

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Not sure if this is intended to be the *definitive* frame drawing for your bike, and I would hope it isn't since it shows so little. This must be an early stage fit verification?
    Details I'd want to see in a frame drawing include, but aren't limited to: Water bottle mounting boss locations, tire clearance, crank clearance, headset spec, seat clamp size, FD clamp size, seat tube ream dimension, stand over height, BB height, dropout type, OLD dimensions, fender/rack mounts, etc.
    - Brad Comis

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    That 70.5 deg STA is likely heavily influenced by your choice of saddle along with your seat height and setback. The SI Turbo is an old design of saddle with rail flats that are quite far back compared to modern saddles if my recollection is correct.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    That 70.5 deg STA is likely heavily influenced by your choice of saddle along with your seat height and setback. .
    No problem as long as the tire doesn't rub the back of the seat tube or the front derailleur doesn't hit the seat stay.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    I wouldn't buy anything from someone doing design onto paper. It's not very professional.

    Why we don't draw on paper | Peter Verdone Designs
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Do you have a picture of you on your Ritchey Swiss Cross. How happy are you with it? This geometry is substantially different from any feasible fit on a Swiss Cross (moves you much more upright and further back). I would be a bit skeptical (and not just because of the hand drawing). How did you get to this point? Did you have a professional fit? Did you send him body measurements or just bike measurements? This might not be the wrong fit for you, but if I were you, I'd make damn sure the process that got you there was robust, because with a geometry like that, you'll be looking at pennies on the dollar if you need to sell it.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Critique please. I am a monkey with long torso/arms and shorter legs but long femur. This drawing was presented to me by an eff builder for approval. I would like some feedback prior to pulling the trigger. Thanks in advance.
    Tim Campen ROAD Design 2019 (1).pdf
    First things first...either you trust the builder, or you don't. If you don't, cut your losses, whatever they may be, and move on. Posting a custom frame design and then inviting armchair critique from the internet is a sure way to lose confidence in your builder for no good reason. This is just me, but if I were your builder and you came back to me with input from an internet committee, I'd thank you for your interest, refund your deposit and kindly tell you to move along.

    You've got quite a bit of saddle setback. The builder slackened the seat tube angle AND has a layback post on there and that's a fine way to get you in the right spot. I know it's been a while since you posted this and I hope you're enjoying the bike as I write this.

    Also, Eff what PVD said. I too think that CAD is the best way to design but bikes were designed for over a century without the use of computers. There's nothing anywhere that says you need a computer to build a well fitting and reliable frame. JFC Pete, I don't know why you continue to beat that drum. CAD increases the efficiency for the builder, why should any of us care if he or she prefers paper?
    Sean Chaney
    www.vertigocycles.com
    a peek behind the curtain

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    It's great to see this thread resurrected. I purchased a Ritchey Road Classic 59 and have been on it for a month or so. Still sorting out the position but for sure my setback is not what I had reported it to the builder. The bike rides really well and does everything w/o any drama. I have no confidence in my ability to set up a bike properly as I just build it and set a few things where they either have been or what measures out to be close. I am an enthusiast and just enjoy riding my bike. The road classic has much more bb stiffness than did the swiss cross, and I like that as I'm almost an eighth ton man. The bars feel a bit low on this bike. I originally built it with a short setback Deda post and a 140 stem. Rode great, but didn't look right to me compared to my other machines, so I switched out the post for a Pro and shortened the stem 1cm. Hand numbness, which has always plagued me, was epic for the first few rides. Setback with the Deda post was 2.5cm or so, a lot less than the drawing, and my reporting to the eff-builder. Will get some photos of me on the Classic and post them. Thanks to all for the feedback.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Using CAD does not in any way guarantee a quality end product. There is nothing wrong with a well drafted frame on paper. BikeCAD certainly has some advantages, especially in the efficiency department, but a little trigonometry and a ruler can go a long way.
    Will Neide (pronounced Nighty, like the thing worn to bed)

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I wouldn't buy anything from someone doing design onto paper. It's not very professional.

    Why we don't draw on paper | Peter Verdone Designs
    Strange enough, a few respected builder here seem to rely on a superimposition of the tubing to a 1:1 drawing. Go figure.
    And a guy that build a few frames when the Pro-Team would still ride steel or aluminium (and that has sadly departed) would rely on a paper sketch to put a 4x Tour winner on the saddle.
    Which brings me to quote the following, too right:


    Quote Originally Posted by Will Neide View Post
    Using CAD does not in any way guarantee a quality end product ... a little trigonometry and a ruler can go a long way.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    rely on a superimposition of the tubing to a 1:1 drawing.
    That's super cute. They must really know what they are doing.
    "...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Hey pvd - I've watched your posts here and on the mtbr forum, and frankly I tire of your "I'm the only one that knows anything" attitude. You're not raising yourself up by tearing everyone else down . A dose of humility would go a long ways.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

    "Sometimes, as good as it feels to speak out, silence is the only way to rise above the morass. The high road is generally a quiet route." -- echelon_john

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    That's cool.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    About a dozen years ago I sent Roland a stick figure drawing of me riding my bicycle. He delivered a fantastic red racing machine.
     

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    Quote Originally Posted by WFSTEKL View Post
    About a dozen years ago I sent Roland a stick figure drawing of me riding my bicycle. He delivered a fantastic red racing machine.
    There is one builder I know who would measure people and just start cutting tubes.

    He'd just built that many bikes.




    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Potential frame design drawing

    I have two custom frames built from 1:1 paper drawings. They fit me well and are exactly what I wanted as far as the ride. I trusted the builder to know his shit and wasn't disappointed.
    Weight Doper

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