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Thread: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    Yeah, 17 years of custom bikes has taught me a thing or two



    I have a box of them, actually.

    Collected while making things work flawlessly

    Look like I'm going to add a few more.

    What's $40 to make it dialed?

    - Garro.
    I agree, and wasnít suggesting otherwise. Lots of questionable advice on the internet at large.

    Also itís hard to put a price on learning, especially if you can do future bikes knowing what you know.
     

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Did some thinking at the shop today

    Cable pull is the same between 10-11sp mtb iirc

    Road is is essentially double (mtb pulls ~5mm cable, road ~10mm) cable pull.

    You canít get a long swing mtb fd.

    Iíd be interested to try a sram fd. Their 1-1 actuation ratio is a lot closer to the revised shimano fd pull. Measuring ing pivot spread on the fd places them very close, so id guess it would work acceptably at the very least
     

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    I think I got it sussed up

    Will report back

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    This was a special project. XTR front with SRAM Force. There's a pro trick but it can be done.

    218 PVD Bird of Prey | Peter Verdone Designs



    "...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew flowers View Post
    Did some thinking at the shop today

    Cable pull is the same between 10-11sp mtb iirc

    Road is is essentially double (mtb pulls ~5mm cable, road ~10mm) cable pull.

    You can’t get a long swing mtb fd.

    I’d be interested to try a sram fd. Their 1-1 actuation ratio is a lot closer to the revised shimano fd pull. Measuring ing pivot spread on the fd places them very close, so id guess it would work acceptably at the very least
    SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that shifts worth a darn since New Success stuff.

    M
     

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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Easier than rigging up a cable pull multiplier like pvdís post
     

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    andrew flowers - you are confused. Re-read and look at the details.
     

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Iíve read your post and donít see anything

    Sram shifters to an xtr is interesting, but not what we are discussing. The chainring combos are also different.

    Iím really interested why the xtr was chosen versus compatible SRAM units. Iím also curious if the trim on a shimano shifter interacts differently with a mtb fd versus the no trim of mtb or SRAM road shifters

    Please enlighten us
     

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    I was under the understanding that this was about front shifting with drop bar levers.

    Simply, the XTR side-swing front is one of the most amazing things ever. Given the application, it's the obvious choice. The problem is that modern mountain bike front derailleurs won't work correctly with hydro road shifting. I fix that.
    "...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I was under the understanding that this was about front shifting with drop bar levers.

    Simply, the XTR side-swing front is one of the most amazing things ever. Given the application, it's the obvious choice. The problem is that modern mountain bike front derailleurs won't work correctly with hydro road shifting. I fix that.
    I believe you

    SRAM I can envision setting up with soft cable tension, and having the single click engage where you want it.

    Shimano, with the four stops (low, low trim, high, high trim) of modern road shifting provide a problem. Even if you account for the dead low trim the high trim will derail the chain if tension is too low.

    Iíve always matched high pull/high pull, low pull/low pull fdís. If there is something Iím missing Iím genuinely curious.
     

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I was under the understanding that this was about front shifting with drop bar levers.

    Simply, the XTR side-swing front is one of the most amazing things ever. Given the application, it's the obvious choice. The problem is that modern mountain bike front derailleurs won't work correctly with hydro road shifting. I fix that.
    I like it !!!

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 01-16-2020 at 12:56 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    SRAM hasn't made a front derailleur that shifts worth a darn since New Success stuff.

    M
    This just isn't true.

    SRAM struggled with front shifting, as has everyone else honestly. Their first road groups were pretty bad and were made worse when paired with some 3rd party rings. The XX 2x front shifting was pretty damn impressive and by the time they got to 11spd road they had front road shifting pretty dialed. If you think otherwise, you need to find a better mechanic.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    No experience with 11sp road but Sram MTB front shifting worked well in my experience. Even a cheap Sram X5.

    People just love to bash Sram for no objective reasons. Sure they made some crappy things and have been leaning slightly more on innovation than conservatism with all the risks that it implies but I can name a few mishaps from shimano or campagnolo as well.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 01-17-2020 at 07:55 AM.
    --
    T h o m a s

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    Quote Originally Posted by abbeyQ View Post
    This just isn't true.

    SRAM struggled with front shifting, as has everyone else honestly. Their first road groups were pretty bad and were made worse when paired with some 3rd party rings. The XX 2x front shifting was pretty damn impressive and by the time they got to 11spd road they had front road shifting pretty dialed. If you think otherwise, you need to find a better mechanic.
    I disagree with that sentiment. Fiddly. Hard to set up. Don't shift well.

    The long arm Shimano derailleurs were fiddly and hard to set up, but once you get them set right, they actually shift.

    M
     

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Hive-Mind Shimano compatibility Q:

    IMG_9346.JPG

    It finally got figured, ordered, built, painted and assembled !!!


    Man.
    This took a ton of research and figuring but it works like a champ !!!

    * Ultegra 11-speed STI shifters
    * XT M8000 28/38 for 48.5mm chain line
    * MT800 BB on a 68mm threaded shell with one 2.5mm spacer drive side and TWO on the non drive side (reverse of usual spacer placement and now you have a 46mm chain line)
    * GRX 11-speed front derailleur
    * XT 11/40 rear cassette
    * XT long cage clutch derailleur
    * Ultegra chain
    * Wolf Tooth Tampan 11 adaptor
    * Paul Components Klamper brakes

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 04-23-2020 at 03:28 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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