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Thread: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    But the Ultegra route already forces folks to piece it together and start making changes. I'm glad Shimano is going to introduce a groupset for this niche. Their cranksets alone seem to be a compromise in a lot of ways, though the GRX with the 48/31 seems odd too........ That's the one I'm likely to end up with.
    Not sure what the thoughts were behind a 48T big ring. I've been happy with the 46, it's nice for riding the rolling stuff with a big cassette. I did my first year of gravel races on a Gunnar Crosshairs with 8S Dura Ace and 38/44 rings (130 crank).
    Weight Doper

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    As long as the thickness and diameter is compatible, rotors brands are interchangeable. The shimano rotor warp issue is mostly limited to OEM builds.

    My shimano brakes are currently sporting a DT swiss catalyst front and a TRP rear. For a while it had 2 Sram centerline ones.
    --
    T h o m a s

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Grx is great because the hoods are designed to be used differently than traditional road hoods.

    All rotors warp. Id recommend getting a proper truing tool and practicing maintenance methodologies that work for you
     

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Rotor warp on oem builds is often terrible because companies insist on shipping bikes with the rotors installed
     

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    What makes Shimano's GRX groupset a mess? I'm honestly curious because I will soon be in need of a groupset for my yet unbuilt Zanconato. It is plumbed for Di2 so I suppose I could also go with Campagnolo EPS but I'm hoping for the very wide range and low ratios of the GRX group. FWIW, I intend to build with the 2X crankset, not the 1X.

    I'm curious if there is something about it we don't publicly know.
    Mainly aesthetics, to be perfectly honest. It looks a bit cheap to me, though I'm sure it works great. I also don't want an increased Q-Factor and most of what I'd need out of a gravel/all-road bike can be accomplished with their road group (50/34t x 11-34t) or mashing together a Di2 1x with a big ol' cassette out back.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    <twitch>

    My next bike will have rim brakes and room for 28s.

    I hear you re: the new new thing, and I suppose I'd try direct mounts just to see...

    Have you tried any?
    First with EE on my Gaulzetti Aerotack and then with SRAM S-900 series direct mounts on my Gaulzetti Interclub. They're excellent, especially when paired with a really good rim surface like Bora/Fulcrum Speed or Mavic.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCfixie View Post
    As a person who has not yet embraced disc brakes, what happened to all the talk of using XT/XTR calipers/rotors with an otherwise DA/Ultegra road setup for an all-road bike?
    Post #35 .

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    As long as the thickness and diameter is compatible, rotors brands are interchangeable. The shimano rotor warp issue is mostly limited to OEM builds.

    My shimano brakes are currently sporting a DT swiss catalyst front and a TRP rear. For a while it had 2 Sram centerline ones.
    I don’t have an OE / factory bike, and these are not my first discs. I’ve been truing rotors for years.

    I’ve never experienced problems with rotors - Avid and TRP - like I have with current gen DA and XTR rotors.

    Prior gen Shimano rotors were good.

    Current gen SRAM Centerline and Campy rotors work fine with DA calipers (despite the hype).

    Shimano has a fundamental design problem with their craptacular current gen rotors, exacerbated by thermal management issues, and tight tolerances.

    Bad design.

    To anyone considering a new Shimano disc group, I say: Have fun truing rotors 500% more than you did before you “upgraded” to GRX or whatever.

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    I don’t have an OE / factory bike, and these are not my first discs. I’ve been truing rotors for years.

    I’ve never experienced problems with rotors - Avid and TRP - like I have with current gen DA and XTR rotors.

    Prior gen Shimano rotors were good.

    Current gen SRAM Centerline and Campy rotors work fine with DA calipers (despite the hype).

    Shimano has a fundamental design problem with their craptacular current gen rotors, exacerbated by thermal management issues, and tight tolerances.

    Bad design.

    To anyone considering a new Shimano disc group, I say: Have fun truing rotors 500% more than you did before you “upgraded” to GRX or whatever.
    Hi hear you and agree.

    I was just pointing out that you are not required to use the shimano rotors with an otherwise almost complete groupset, be it GRX or another. The rotors are not sold with the calipers AFAIK so it is an OEM issue only.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Strongin View Post
    First with EE on my Gaulzetti Aerotack and then with SRAM S-900 series direct mounts on my Gaulzetti Interclub. They're excellent, especially when paired with a really good rim surface like Bora/Fulcrum Speed or Mavic.
    So direct mount rim brakes are currently limited to Gaulzetti (not that it is a bad choice) for custom carbon (or Spez/Tre/Canon/etc. for stock).

    Anyone making a good third party carbon fiber direct mount rim brake fork builders can use for custom Ti bikes?
     

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Parlee? What is Craig using?

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCfixie View Post
    So direct mount rim brakes are currently limited to Gaulzetti (not that it is a bad choice) for custom carbon (or Spez/Tre/Canon/etc. for stock).

    Anyone making a good third party carbon fiber direct mount rim brake fork builders can use for custom Ti bikes?
    I think Sarto can also do a carbon bike with direct mounts, but I'm not sure who else.

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    Parlee? What is Craig using?
    Craig has his own forks. I don't want to misspeak on the details, but they're designed for his bikes and I don't believe they're available elsewhere. Just one of those extra details that he puts into his designs. Maybe he'll chime in if he sees this thread. I have a third direct mount Gaulzetti on the way and I'm sure it'll be as rad as the others. My interclub has the SRAM s-900 direct mounts with Fulcrum Racing Speed 40C wheels (with the newer campy/fulcrum brake track) and the braking is pretty much perfect. And they're silent in the rain. I just put Bora WTO 60s on the Aerotack with EE brakes and that's also an amazing combo. I'm hoping to take one of those bikes to the mountains with some Mavic Exalith rims in the near future and I'm sure I'll be very impressed.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    is this a Shimano vs SRAM vs Campy thread ?

    Campagnolo SR EPS 12 FTW. Loving this thing.
     

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    far from an expert and not trying to be a shimano fan boy. no experience with grx. just passed a year on my road hydraulics, but I live in mainly flat area, and this is on an unloaded road race bike, not a fully loaded touring tandem, for example. with that said:

    mineral oil will not absorb atmospheric water and you don't have to worry about your open bottle going bad. it will also not attack the rubber seals in the shimano system

    as far as I know, squeezing brake lever without the block won't cause leaking, you just have to push the pads back in place with the proper tool or a clean tire lever

    everyone wants disc brakes to be as light as rim brakes, so yeah, the new designs are less beefy and therefore more prone to warping in more extreme conditions. I have never had to true my rotors. If you are having to do so, I would suggest larger diameter if you're not already there (i.e. 160 over 140s) and the nicer ones in the line up that have the ice technology (heat causes warping)

    grx was developed so people wouldn't have to cobble together road and mtb stuff, and the hoods are redesigned so braking is more confident from the tops in rough stuff

    disc brakes will save your rims from destruction from slush/sand and it doesn't matter if the wheel (not the rotor) is out of true. for gravel and year round riding thru sh*tty conditions, that's an advantage over any rim system.

    I'm a retro grouch, no question, but I still use "clipless" pedals and indexed shifting, if you know what I mean...
     

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post

    Shimano hydro uses mineral oil, which has a higher boiling point than the DOT fluid used by Campy and SRAM. A higher boiling point sounds like a benefit, however mineral oil and DOT fluid each have pros and cons.
    Campy uses mineral oil. https://glorycycles.com/campagnolo-d...e-fluid-250ml/
     

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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    <twitch>

    My next bike will have rim brakes and room for 28s.

    I hear you re: the new new thing, and I suppose I'd try direct mounts just to see...

    Have you tried any?
    DM was a missed opportunity for the road bike industry in my humble opinion - a slight but notable power increase over standard rim brakes at the same weight; but new frames needed across the board. The industry could have used the marketing steamrollers to eek out a whole 3-5yr period of upgrades before moving to disc. Probably. Possibly.

    Anyway, Im a DM fan; although its unlikely Ill get around to owning a frame that needs them again.

    Frankly the only thing Id say is steer clear of the latest Campag ones - they were clearly an afterthought with the 12spd kit and arent great to setup, nor do they have great power; AND they dont look like the same quality level as the rest of the 12spd groupsets, especially against SR.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by rec head View Post
    I stand corrected re: Campy. Thanks.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colinmclelland View Post
    ...

    To add a potential complication its an R45 with a Shimano 10spd freehub that needs to be sorted. Whats the recommended approach with that?
    Sell it and buy a DT240, sorted.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi cos col dove si puote
    ci che si vuole, e pi non dimandare"

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Has the period of sanity been quashed?

    RE: Shimano Hydros vs TRP Spyre.
    Apples to onions.

    The latest Shimano hydros are very much ok, still have an issue -just like any other hydro!- in road frames/bars where the hose goes up/down and can create air-pockets. This is almost always solved with a two-way bleeding, and leaving the caliper off the frame so stays as low as possible.
    Warped rotors? It does happen, pretty much like all the disk rotors do. But the Shimano hydros seem to have a consistent good alignment of the pads, so for the same lever stroke you get more room in between the pads and the rotor.
    The downside are the ceramic pistons, never force the wheel in skewed and never push the pistons with a metallic object and/or from one side. Always use a strong tyre lever (or similar) and push from the center.

    TRP Spyre's are not bad brakes, but you have to keep in mind that you will have to readjust them all the time. Which is not a bad thing if you do regularly, but during the winter the adjusters may seize, then you're screwed. Litterally.
    And the pads can stay a bit off with the rotor, often is the outer edge that stays closer to the rotor. But they're cheap and require minimal fuss with existing equipment. Plus they use widely available pads.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi cos col dove si puote
    ci che si vuole, e pi non dimandare"

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