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Thread: Di2 battery not holding charge

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    Default Di2 battery not holding charge

    About a month ago, I noticed that the battery is dead after about a week, following a full charge, even when I had not ridden the bike during that time.

    The group set, including the seat post mounted internal battery, is a little over 2 years old. It hasn't seen much mileage, and since I live in a flat area, I don't think I shift gears as often as someone living in a hilly area.

    The firmware is up to date.

    No parts have been replaced since new.

    There is no limit screw issue, judging from the fact that the system does not keep pushing when already in the largest or smallest sprocket or when switching between chain rings.

    Shortly before this started to happen, I did have a minor crash where the RD got a bit scratched. Shifting works just fine, as before. Well, when the battery isn't dead.

    The shift levers are not touching anything whilst being stored.

    The storage environment temperature is about 0įC/32įF at night, a bit warmer during the day and dry, ie, humidity not discernible.

    I disconnected and reconnected the cables at the bar end junction, battery and RD.

    Solid green light for 3 days. Blinking green light on day 4. Dead on day 5. No riding involved. Just a couple of tests shifting up and down and the battery checks, with the chain moving 2 sprocket positions.

    I'm all ears if you have an idea about the problem or the solution, or suggestions on properly diagnosing the problem.

    Many thanks.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Use an alcohol soaked q-tip and clean everything in sight than use some di-electric grease (tune up grease) from your friendly neighborhood auto parts store to dose the contacts.

    Dirt and what not can cause voltage leak.

    https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-2205.../dp/B000AL8VD2
    Last edited by Too Tall; 01-26-2020 at 01:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Ok, thanks. The RD connection would be the prime suspect for that.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Do you have access to Shimano SM-PCE02 to an error check? It will tell you what maybe going on.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Do you have access to a second front junction box - an EW90? I have had two of those go bad, leading to very fast battery drain in otherwise good batteries.

    A two year old DI2 battery should be solid for a good while longer.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by DBordewisch View Post
    Do you have access to Shimano SM-PCE02 to an error check? It will tell you what maybe going on.
    No, I don't, so I was thinking that I should ask my LBS if they have one to run the diagnostics for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    Do you have access to a second front junction box - an EW90? I have had two of those go bad, leading to very fast battery drain in otherwise good batteries.

    A two year old DI2 battery should be solid for a good while longer.
    No. How did you figure out that it was a bad junction box, if it wasn't through the use of SM-PCE02 or 01?
    Yeah, the battery is too new to die, so it's more likely that the problem lies somewhere else in the system.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post

    No. How did you figure out that it was a bad junction box, if it wasn't through the use of SM-PCE02 or 01?
    Yeah, the battery is too new to die, so it's more likely that the problem lies somewhere else in the system.
    After swapping out the battery didn't solve my issue, I swapped out the junction box and the problem was solved.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Well Di2 is amazing and always works perfectly. Until it doesn't.

    Unfortunately you're in a tough position and this is where a good bike shop should earn their money as they're able to diagnose and test quicker and easier as they'll have the tools and bits needed. However:

    1) Are you actually plugging the cables into the components? Using the proper Shimano tool until they click? A friend who travelled a lot with their bike was having weird Di2 issues caused by the seatpost battery cable being inserted by hand and not 'clicked' into place. Check all the connections, including the junction boxes (yes, even the one buried in your frame)
    2) If you have not used a SM-PCE01 to test individual components then now is the time to do so. My guess is that they'll all come back green.
    3) Inspect all the cables for a kink etc. The seatpost battery cable is generally the worst.
    4) If your battery is the original black one (not the newer purple) then swap the battery for a new one.
    5) Time to start swapping components. If you have access to an entire wiring loom then plug it all in now, leaving the cables draped externally if needed.
    6) Replace both the A and B junction boxes
    7) Curse and swear and start replacing individual shifters and derailleurs.

    You're 'lucky' that the charge is being lost consistently and rather quickly so you *should* be able to isolate the leak by checking (and recording) how much charge is lost in 24h for each unplugged component.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Iíve seen a few ew90 stem mounted junction boxes go haywire recently and start eating battery life but I havenít seen it on the rs-910. How do you have the cables routed? Were the bars pre drilled for the bar end junction or did you modify them? Wires going through stem or anything extra fancy like that?

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    After swapping out the battery didn't solve my issue, I swapped out the junction box and the problem was solved.
    Lucky discovery!
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by watchcwgo View Post
    I’ve seen a few ew90 stem mounted junction boxes go haywire recently and start eating battery life but I haven’t seen it on the rs-910. How do you have the cables routed? Were the bars pre drilled for the bar end junction or did you modify them? Wires going through stem or anything extra fancy like that?
    The bars are not modified; it's a Pro Vibe Di2 compatible thingy.

    I did not opt for the Vibe stem, so no fancy wiring. wire comes out of the bar and enters the frame at the side of the head tube. Therefore, if a kink in the wire is the cause, it would likely be where it's visible, outside the bars / frame. But I can't spot one.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    Well Di2 is amazing and always works perfectly. Until it doesn't.
    Ain't that the troof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    Unfortunately you're in a tough position and this is where a good bike shop should earn their money as they're able to diagnose and test quicker and easier as they'll have the tools and bits needed. However:

    1) Are you actually plugging the cables into the components? Using the proper Shimano tool until they click? A friend who travelled a lot with their bike was having weird Di2 issues caused by the seatpost battery cable being inserted by hand and not 'clicked' into place. Check all the connections, including the junction boxes (yes, even the one buried in your frame)
    2) If you have not used a SM-PCE01 to test individual components then now is the time to do so. My guess is that they'll all come back green.
    3) Inspect all the cables for a kink etc. The seatpost battery cable is generally the worst.
    4) If your battery is the original black one (not the newer purple) then swap the battery for a new one.
    5) Time to start swapping components. If you have access to an entire wiring loom then plug it all in now, leaving the cables draped externally if needed.
    6) Replace both the A and B junction boxes
    7) Curse and swear and start replacing individual shifters and derailleurs.

    You're 'lucky' that the charge is being lost consistently and rather quickly so you *should* be able to isolate the leak by checking (and recording) how much charge is lost in 24h for each unplugged component.
    1) Yes, clicked in with that toothpick thingy -- bar end junction, RD and battery. I haven't checked the ones buried in the bike.
    2) I don't have SM-PCE01, but I am hoping my LBS has a SM-PCE02 so they can check on the battery as well.
    3) Seatpost battery wire looks fine. All external sections have no kinks. I don't believe there is a reason for internal sections to have developed a kink, but I suppose it doesn't mean that it was kinked in the beginning and the symptoms are showing up only now.
    4) I'm not familiar with the purple one. (We're usually a bit slow over here.) The model number I have is BT-DN110.

    If I had an extra bit of wire, I suppose I could connect the battery directly to, eg, RD and see if one of them has gone rogue. But I don't.
    Hmmm...
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Lucky discovery!
    It helped that it was by far the easiest thing to check next after swapping batteries!

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    I think I will fully charge the battery again, disconnect it from the system, then reconnect it after 5 days to see how much charge is remaining. If I find that it's dead, then it's the battery. If not, I'll have to diagnose other bits one way or another.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    I left the battery disconnected for a week, cleaned the tips with alcohol, plugged it back in, and saw that it held its charge. The battery is still good.

    I unplugged the RD, cleaned the tips with alcohol, plugged it back in. No visible contamination on the Q-tip.

    I did the same with the FD. I somehow forgot to unplug and re-plug the FD last time. No visible contamination on the Q-tip.

    It's been 10 days since I plugged the battery back in, 16 days since the last charge. Solid green light at the junction box.

    So, I think the FD plug may have been a bit loose and caused a drain. Is that possible?

    Toots, I haven't had a chance to get some di-electric grease, but given that the plugs are very small, we're talking about a miniscule amount when applying, correct?
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post

    So, I think the FD plug may have been a bit loose and caused a drain. Is that possible?
    Most definitely - they can ovalise with lots of wiggling. It's also worth always using the Shimano tool to unplug and re-plug the connectors.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    So... it's yet to be resolved.

    I took the bike to the LBS a few weeks ago.

    Diagnostics through SMPCE02 was run several times by connecting it to all available ports. Had a separate session on the battery alone. All ok.

    Had Shimano Europe on the phone a few times to see what else to try, etc.

    Left the bike in the shop and found that the battery was dead after about 5 days, same as what I was experiencing at home.

    More calls to Shimano.

    I suggested using a brand new SMPCE02 tool in case the first one was damaged or defective, so they got a new one. Everything ok.

    Replaced the cable between the battery and junction B as the battery side seemed a tad loose.

    Replaced the battery.

    Checked and refitted the bar-end junction A, re-checked cable connections.

    Brought it home, battery level at 3/5. Recharged the battery fully, left in the house for a week, no rides. Battery dead.

    One thing that the Shimano person mentioned to my mechanic buddy was the possibility of a Bluetooth device nearby polling the ewwu111 and causing the power drain. I can't speak for the LBS environment, but at home, there is one bike with an old Garmin speed/cadence sensor that might be looking for an ANT partner in the Di2 although I thought that the sensor only looks for another ANT device if it detects wheel/crank movement. The only Bluetooth devices in the house are 3 floors above the bike, and I have confirmed that they are well out of range. Ok, the phones are also Bluetooth devices, but I don't think they are constantly within range. And, yes, I disconnect the ETube app's BT connection whenever I am done using it.

    As we live in town, it's possible that Bluetooth devices used by neighbours might be causing the battery drain.

    Despite the Shimano rep's caution, which he further qualified by saying that they have come across a few cases, this Bluetooth theory seems odd to me. When you try to make a Bluetooth connection between the ETube app on the phone and the bike, the BT connection on the bike needs to be first switched on by pressing the junction A button. Doesn't that mean that the EWWU111's BT channel needs to be woken up? Additionally, when you disconnect the ETube app connection, the lights on junction A goes on again to signal that the connection has ended. Doesn't that mean EWWU111's BT connection was switched off, ie, it won't entertain polling requests from random devices?

    BTW, the original battery was sent to Shimano for further inspection.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    So... it's yet to be resolved.

    I took the bike to the LBS a few weeks ago.

    Diagnostics through SMPCE02 was run several times by connecting it to all available ports. Had a separate session on the battery alone. All ok.

    Had Shimano Europe on the phone a few times to see what else to try, etc.

    Left the bike in the shop and found that the battery was dead after about 5 days, same as what I was experiencing at home.

    More calls to Shimano.

    I suggested using a brand new SMPCE02 tool in case the first one was damaged or defective, so they got a new one. Everything ok.

    Replaced the cable between the battery and junction B as the battery side seemed a tad loose.

    Replaced the battery.

    Checked and refitted the bar-end junction A, re-checked cable connections.

    Brought it home, battery level at 3/5. Recharged the battery fully, left in the house for a week, no rides. Battery dead.

    One thing that the Shimano person mentioned to my mechanic buddy was the possibility of a Bluetooth device nearby polling the ewwu111 and causing the power drain. I can't speak for the LBS environment, but at home, there is one bike with an old Garmin speed/cadence sensor that might be looking for an ANT partner in the Di2 although I thought that the sensor only looks for another ANT device if it detects wheel/crank movement. The only Bluetooth devices in the house are 3 floors above the bike, and I have confirmed that they are well out of range. Ok, the phones are also Bluetooth devices, but I don't think they are constantly within range. And, yes, I disconnect the ETube app's BT connection whenever I am done using it.

    As we live in town, it's possible that Bluetooth devices used by neighbours might be causing the battery drain.

    Despite the Shimano rep's caution, which he further qualified by saying that they have come across a few cases, this Bluetooth theory seems odd to me. When you try to make a Bluetooth connection between the ETube app on the phone and the bike, the BT connection on the bike needs to be first switched on by pressing the junction A button. Doesn't that mean that the EWWU111's BT channel needs to be woken up? Additionally, when you disconnect the ETube app connection, the lights on junction A goes on again to signal that the connection has ended. Doesn't that mean EWWU111's BT connection was switched off, ie, it won't entertain polling requests from random devices?

    BTW, the original battery was sent to Shimano for further inspection.
    Remove the Bluetooth unit from the DI2 setup and see what happens?

    And try swapping out the front A junction box. I have had two go bad in my 11 years of DI2 usage and both caused premature battery drain.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    Did anyone wipe and reload the software on the battery with the SM-PCE02? It only takes a few minutes.

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    Default Re: Di2 battery not holding charge

    You need to start eliminating components.

    AT HOME:
    Change the battery to 100 percent, unplug a component and leave for two days. What's the battery level?

    Write down what you're doing and what battery loss you're experiencing. It will be clear very quickly.

    Start with the easy ones: shifters (satellite if you have any), then derailleurs. Junction boxes are harder but you can eliminate a junction box and a cable at once by "jumping" around them.

    IN A SHOP:
    My first move would be to make a fresh wiring loom and plug all components into it. My guess is that will solve the problem, but if not I'd use the fresh loom and then start removing components.

    Honestly this isn't hard but is time consuming.

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