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Thread: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

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    Default bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    cross posting from the other forum for the sake of expanding the conversation.

    because they are inexpensive, and seem to work well, i have Centaur RD's on a few bikes. i was giving my gravel bike a thorough cleaning last night and took a look at the jockey wheels and gave the bottom one a spin without the chain on it, and oof, gritty as hell.

    pulled the RD apart and was surprised that the campy jockey wheels dont use bearings, but use bushings, which took some "convincing" to come apart. i would have guessed there were bearings back there, but nope.

    anyway, this is probably fine for road, but i think for a gravel bike that sees a lot of wet, silty gritty conditions, bushings are non-ideal. the inside surfaces of the wheels are pretty scored, so i think these are toast.

    time for an upgrade!


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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    recommendations for good, well sealed jockey wheels that will fit my centaur cage?

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    I get what you are saying however I don't think seal bearings are needed. Many of us has put MTBs through serious abuse when it comes to sand, mud, rain, water crossings, etc, etc while using jockey wheels without sealed bearings without issue. I have even worn out the actual wheel's teeth because of hours and hours of usage in dirty/muddy conditions while bushing continued to do its job.
    And I don't know if it is true today, but years ago the jockey wheels needed to be able to move side to side a small amount to help keep the shifting smooth and quiet. I never had any after market jockey wheels with seal bearings that allowed for this.

    I used to take them about as shown in the photo, clean them up, put some grease on the bushing to help keep continents out (at least for a little while), reassemble, and then go get them dirty.

    Without getting to deep into chain maintenance, the other thing that I found was using less chain lube and wiping things down before or after a ride keeps the accumulation of the gunk down or non-existent. With less gunk, there is less for contaminants to stick to.
    Brian McLaughlin

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    You can get Campy SR pulleys. They are sealed. But they are also have those annoying holes in them that fill up with crud. I'd prefer a solid pulley with no holes. Sheds mud better.

    Less lube more frequently with rag wipe downs before and after help too. And NFS, which of course you are using.

    edit: Kogel makes a set with a bearing option that is sealed for cross, but they are $30 more than the SR bearings. However, they seem to have more of a mud-shedding design. At least the holes are larger.

    Or you could just get an Ultrasonic Cleaner.
    Last edited by j44ke; 02-26-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Bushings work great and what Brian said. Wipe the bushing with light oil and call it good. They do get ugly if you use your bike which I KNOW for a fact you do so hey get on with it.

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    I'm a fan of Tacx jockey wheels. Solid, plastic, sealed bearing. I use them on both C and S brands (Cogswell Cogs and Spacely Sprockets).

    Dear Campagnolo and Shimano, please stop putting holes in the jockey wheels. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. So just stop.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    The stiffening ribs, and weight reduction holes on current Campag. pulleys is mad painful. I've also settled on the old, solid pulleys that were once proper and remain proper. Drape a thin rag over your open-palm hand, then pinch a pulley between your thumb and trigger finger, then back pedal. The rag will then contain the rubbish that was once on your pulley wheels. It requires about 30 seconds of your time, and all sharp objects will remain on the workbench. All bets are off if your pulleys were designed by Italian engineers within the last 10 years.
     

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by WFSTEKL View Post
    All bets are off if your pulleys were designed by Italian engineers within the last 10 years.
    Yep. Reason #12 I gave up on C after 9 speed.

    Next topic: External bottom brackets that last up to 120 miles.
     

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by CXinNH View Post
    Yep. Reason #12 I gave up on C after 9 speed.

    Next topic: External bottom brackets that last up to 120 miles.
    Funny you mention external BBs. I also scratched those off my list, at least Campag. They always had kittens at inopportune moments, particularly during cold, messy winter training rides. Yet, somehow, a new frameset landed in my basement shop this winter. I must have left one of the windows open. In any event, I needed an additional crank for it. Payment had to be derived from my daily coffee allowance otherwise my wife would have had the house locks changed while I was on one of those miserable winter jaunts. I found a Campag. Centaur UT crank on ebay for pennies. Brand new it was. Yikes, I bought it! This crank has gotten my new frame on the road, and the crank hasn't had a litter, yet. It will, I know. Don't hate me.
     

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Never had any issue with Campagnolo UT BBs. Thousands of trouble-free miles.

    That said, Shimano’s seem to be just as good and are far easier to work with. And they’re tidier.

    Haven’t played with my Shimano pulleys yet.

    Btw, if you want tiny ball bearings, get S or C dual pivot brakes. Take them apart at your own peril. I’ve done it successfully but WRT ball bearings in small components, be careful what you wish for. Tiny ball bearings are a joy until they’re your worst maintenance nightmare. You’ll be crawling around with your flashlight and your best reading cheaters until you’ve found every last one.

    Keep your bushing pulleys clean and take them apart when you replace the chain.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Solution to Campy drive side BB bearings going mental is Boca Bearings yellow double sealed bearings. Put them in and forget them. Very very smooth.

    BTW Todd Holland for President solely on the strength of his pulley wheel platform.
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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by WFSTEKL View Post
    Funny you mention external BBs. I also scratched those off my list, at least Campag. I found a Campag. Centaur UT crank on ebay for pennies. Brand new it was. Yikes, I bought it! This crank has gotten my new frame on the road, and the crank hasn't had a litter, yet. It will, I know. Don't hate me.
    HaHa. We will see I guess. External Shimano has worked fine for me.
    I could have sent you some UT cranks for free. Gave up on external campy bb's. probably work fine in warm and dry climates.
     

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    closing the loop. installed some Hope wheels. i figure Hope knows a thing or two about playing in the dirt.

    plus....purple.


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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    for the gravel bike? did they come with a special cleaning brush? because unless your gravel and lube are purple, they will soon be pretty ugly--which should be good motivation to wipe down the chain and pulleys more often, I guess.
     

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    A bushing is the first choice for dirty applications. No moving parts means less maintenance and more resistance to contaminates. Putting a cartridge bearing in there will reduce friction at the cost of a shorter service interval.

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by abbeyQ View Post
    A bushing is the first choice for dirty applications. No moving parts means less maintenance and more resistance to contaminates. Putting a cartridge bearing in there will reduce friction at the cost of a shorter service interval.
    fair point. we'll see how long these last i guess. this bike sees some pretty severe duty too.

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    BBB makes a set of jockey wheels with sealed 607RS bearings. The product name is "RollerBoys." They sell for $13 Canadian on Chain Reaction Cycles. I have a set in my tool box that will likely be installed on my commuter/gravel bike pretty soon. IMO the price is correct for jockey wheels as I'm not a fan of the bling jockey wheels out there.
    - Brad Comis

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Solution to Campy drive side BB bearings going mental is Boca Bearings yellow double sealed bearings. Put them in and forget them. Very very smooth.

    BTW Todd Holland for President solely on the strength of his pulley wheel platform.
    All the UT bearings I've had to replace were due to the non-drive side. Different bikes. The Ti Serotta has a Record crankset with the original DS bearing from 2009 but the NDS has been replaced twice. I'm doing an experiment with a USB on the DS and a steel Chorus level on the NDS. Normally I'll do both sides.
    Weight Doper

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by WheelNut View Post
    BBB makes a set of jockey wheels with sealed 607RS bearings. The product name is "RollerBoys."
    Nice. Style points for glass-reinforced plastic (nylon?) construction and no holes. Aluminum jockey wheels are loud and I'm convinced they also wear faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    All the UT bearings I've had to replace were due to the non-drive side. Different bikes. The Ti Serotta has a Record crankset with the original DS bearing from 2009 but the NDS has been replaced twice. I'm doing an experiment with a USB on the DS and a steel Chorus level on the NDS. Normally I'll do both sides.
    My Ultratorque bearings were serious lowlifes until I bit the bullet and put in a set of Campagnolo CULT. Have not touched them since, but most of my bikes have Powertorque bottom brackets and the standard bearings have fared well. I actually went back to square taper on the Zank because that last-generation three-bearing unit was a beast!

    PS I got really confused by the markings "drive side" and "non-drive side" on my tandem crankset by Truvativ. One because there is no non-drive side! And two because the captain's bottom bracket is their standard unit but turned around. After that it was left and right for me.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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    Default Re: bearings vs bushings: RD jockey wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    My Ultratorque bearings were serious lowlifes until I bit the bullet and put in a set of Campagnolo CULT. Have not touched them since, but most of my bikes have Powertorque bottom brackets and the standard bearings have fared well. I actually went back to square taper on the Zank because that last-generation three-bearing unit was a beast!
    My MX Leader has a square taper Record (with the carbon shell) with an alloy Record crankset. Record was the only Aye-talian bb I had in my box of stuff. I love that bike. I've got three bikes with shimaNo external and they're great too. These days, sticking to C or S won't steer you wrong.
    Weight Doper

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