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Thread: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

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    Default 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Any one know how to remove 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing, are the end caps screwed or pressed on? I've found info on bearing removal but nothing on the end caps. These hubs have no allen key fitting. I only need to replace bearing on the front hub but info on the rear would be nice.

    Happy Holidays, Brian


    "The older I get the better I was" Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Another pic:

    "The older I get the better I was" Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Yes, there is a special Phil Wood bearing press that you need. The axle + bearings are all one assembly and press in and out with the tool. Not too hard once you've done it a few times and learn the tricks to doing it correctly.

    Where are you located? Find an old shop that serviced these back in the 70s/80s and still has the tool. Or, if you are near Santa Cruz, give me a holler.

    BTW, these are the second generation Phil hubs, not the first, which needed to be sent back to Phil for new bearings. This design allowed shops to do it, a big improvement. (Phil no longer supports the first generation, btw.)
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Am I correct in assuming one end cap must be removed before proceeding with bearing and axle removal?
    Guess I was wrong but I thought the chrome shells were 1st gen and stainless followed.

    regards, Brian
    "The older I get the better I was" Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    No, the axle caps stay in place. The entire axle, end caps, and bearings are one assembly. If, say, one wanted to change the rear axle and go from 5 speed to 6 speed, Phil sold a new, longer axle assembly with the end caps and bearings pressed onto the axle at the factory. Or, if one needed new bearings, you sent Phil your old axle assembly and they would press on new ones at the factory with some tools much bigger than the shop tool we used to change out axle/bearing assemblies. I am not aware of there being a way to do it beyond just swapping out entire axle assemblies (and our shop sold and serviced a veritable ton of Phil hubs laced into wheels back in the day. It was/is a good product that usually ran trouble free. Folks wanting the change their freewheel spacing were the main reason we changed out axle assemblies.)

    Are you trying to replace worn out bearings? Or changing the hub spacing?
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Just trying to replace the bearings. I've previously removed the seal and packed with new grease but would like to change the bearings. At this point its more about how to diy than to have the bearings replaced by Phil. Heres a pic of the tool(so I was told) needed to replace the bearing/axle, look familiar?



    Guess I was wrong but I thought only 1st gen had the chrome shells. Sent you a PM

    Brian
    "The older I get the better I was" Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Hi Brian--
    It looks like you have most of the tools there, and some other spacers someone has created for different spacings? The threaded press is key, as is the off-gear side cup (third from left in front row of spacers.) I'm not sure I see the original spacer that came with the press, but perhaps one of the others has the dimensions to take its place? The spacer that is third from the left in the back row looks like it might work? The interior dimensions are key for that. Anyway, it looks like you have a good start to doing the job. As far as I know, you'll want to contact Phil about new bearings? Perhaps they are standard SKF or similar units but I seem to recall they might have been a special order for Phil? In any case, getting the end caps off will be something I can't tell you about, beyond saying I saw Phil doing it on large presses in his workshop. Also, Phil had some written instructions that went with the shop tools; maybe they still have that on file and could send you a copy? Good luck!
    Last edited by Bill Bryant; 12-21-2018 at 03:39 PM. Reason: spelling change
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Hearing that the end caps stay on I used my 1 ton Dake arbor press, pressed the end cap, whole unit pressed into the shell, lined up the bearing in the shell to exit the side and used a brass drift to drift it out. You can see the rust/corrosion on one end of the shell, it took some effort to pop it loose but otherwise all went smoothly.
    Both bearings and the shell where they press in are the same size. I've read where the shell is tapered inside and the bearings will only exit one end but that's not the case with these particular hubs. Next is getting the bearings/end caps off but its looking like another press fit, wont do that till after the holidays, input appreciated for this stage, probably some combo of heat and puller.

    Pics below





    the red grease is from loading the bearings a few months ago(before I decided to change rims) by removing the seals, it did penetrate through the bearing which is good to know


    "The older I get the better I was" Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    I might have to post a picture of the wheels I built when I was in High School. Same vintage and they are still perfect.

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    I might have to post a picture of the wheels I built when I was in High School. Same vintage and they are still perfect.
    Post the photo. I actually remember those wheels from the mid 70's. I recall the hubs catching my attention (you didn't see hubs shaped like that ack then often) and asking about them. My tandem has a similar front hub still in (occasional) service....the rear one is in a box having been replaced by a Phil Wood cassette hub. The front one has a sort of annoying quirk and that is that it is a bolt on version and the allen bolts are SAE and not metric...
    "Humilis humilibus...Inflectans arroganibus....."

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chaba View Post
    Post the photo. I actually remember those wheels from the mid 70's. I recall the hubs catching my attention (you didn't see hubs shaped like that ack then often) and asking about them. My tandem has a similar front hub still in (occasional) service....the rear one is in a box having been replaced by a Phil Wood cassette hub. The front one has a sort of annoying quirk and that is that it is a bolt on version and the allen bolts are SAE and not metric...
    Will do. Thanks, I was pretty enamored with those hubs way back when. Both of them served me well early days mtn. biking than returned to road. Sad that they sit around collecting dust now.

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Here you go, just the front wheel. Rear must be someplace!!! >> Curt Goodrich

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    I just bought a used Super Champion wheel set laced to Phil Wood hubs. bearings are perfect, but the axles are a bit loosen. I donít see a way to adjust the end caps.is there a way I can do that myself?
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    I have pics but donít know how to upload here
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Quote Originally Posted by EPDCidra View Post
    I just bought a used Super Champion wheel set laced to Phil Wood hubs. bearings are perfect, but the axles are a bit loosen. I don’t see a way to adjust the end caps.is there a way I can do that myself?
    The early versions of Phil Wood hubs had no adjustment; it was factory set. Are you feeling the play with your hands grasping the axle ends, or are you feeling it out at the rim? Can you measure the amount of the side-to-side play out at the rim?
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    I feel it out at the rim when are fixed to the frame/fork. Cannot measure it, itís way to little to say even 1-2 mmís.... any suggestions?
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    .5mm movement side-to-side at the rim was pretty normal. If you put it in a truing stand you can measure the rim moment against the truing stand pointer. If it is over 1mm, maybe go ride them and see if you can feel it? (I doubt you will.) They're probably ok? But if out to 2mm or more, that seems pretty far out of spec and you're into unknown territory, at least for me. I can't recall any that had more than 1mm, and some were on loaded touring bikes that had been ridden to Alaska from Argentina, etc. Overall, it is hard to diagnose it from a distance but for now i'd mount some tires and go ride them and see if there is really a problem or not. (Hopefully not.)
     

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    Default Re: 1st generation Phil Wood hub end cap and bearing removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bryant View Post
    .5mm movement side-to-side at the rim was pretty normal. If you put it in a truing stand you can measure the rim moment against the truing stand pointer. If it is over 1mm, maybe go ride them and see if you can feel it? (I doubt you will.) They're probably ok? But if out to 2mm or more, that seems pretty far out of spec and you're into unknown territory, at least for me. I can't recall any that had more than 1mm, and some were on loaded touring bikes that had been ridden to Alaska from Argentina, etc. Overall, it is hard to diagnose it from a distance but for now i'd mount some tires and go ride them and see if there is really a problem or not. (Hopefully not.)
    My understanding of this (dating back to when I built up my Phil wheels in 1987) is that Phil Wood used radial contact bearings, rather than angular contact bearings. The radial bearings have more contact between the balls and races. However, there is some play when there is no load on the bearing. The slight play goes away when you get on the bike. If you install the bearings tight enough that the play disappears, the bearings wear out very very fast.
     

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