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Thread: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

  1. #21
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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Because the debate was settled in 2012.

    If a literal pile of dead first graders doesn't overcome money and influence in the national political will, nothing can. It's a pointless discussion, whether it's street violence in Chicago or domestic terrorism from white supremacists. We know what the answers are and the solutions are pretty straightforward -- the rest of the industrialized world seems to have come around to it -- but in lieu of political will to do it we have thoughts and prayers to keep us warm at night.

    The only mildly new angle here, and it ain't that new, is the rise in white supremacists taking out their rage on minority communities. Charlie Pierce said it best yesterday in a column, the days of lynch mobs are over, because the lone shooter is his own lynch mob. Easier to fire into a crowd you don't like than throw a rope over a tree.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    Tuesday November 3, 2020 we can do something about this. Be there or accept the status quo.
    Vote your conscience in every election, not just the presidential elections.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    Not much to say either except to point out that if these terrorists (which is what they are) weren’t white men there would be much louder calls for action on guns. Talk about privilege.......
    This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.
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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    Vote your conscience in every election, not just the presidential elections.
    We have house, senate and presidential seats that need changing to resolve this problem.
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.
    Interesting counterpoint. Thanks. I did a quick glance and it is an interesting piece.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.
    More to this point and your link, everything we read or consume in terms of information is slanted or selective or incomplete or out of context. Recent examples of this include news in the media about the 737-MAXx series of airplanes. This is a subject where (I think) both of us have more knowledge than the general public and even our knowledge is incomplete. But we read stories in the news about it that are clearly written by non-experts as if they were fact. Because reading technical documents or full accident reports is mind numbingly dull work. Everyone here has an area of knowledge in something that is probably poorly represented in the mainstream media we see all around us.

    So your point is taken. Thanks for the link. It is worthy of a look but even there things are not fully reported. Like all printed or spoken reported words, it is fallible.
    Last edited by Saab2000; 08-07-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    More to this point and your link, everything we read or consume in terms of information is slanted or selective or incomplete or out of context. Recent examples of this include news in the media about the 737-MAXx series of airplanes. This is a subject where (I think) both of us have more knowledge than the general public and even our knowledge is incomplete. But we read stories in the news about it that are clearly written by non-experts as if they were fact. Because reading technical documents or full accident reports is mind numbingly dull work. Everyone here has an area of knowledge in something that is probably poorly represented in the mainstream media we see all around us.

    So your point is taken. Thanks for the link. It is worthy of a look but even there things are not fully reported. Like all printed or spoken reported words, it is fallible.
    Well said.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.
    Alcohol, drugs, DV, argument gone bad, gang violence, gambling, robbery... a lot of these tend to be black on black violence which often gets quickly ignored in the national press. Just focusing on the mass shootings which are more random in cause, really understates the size of the problem. But the sad reality is there are just too many shootings nationally to cover at the national level, and it all just becomes a local event.

    If anything, your article just shows how inured to gun violence the nation has become. Our president , who tweets about the knife violence here in the UK, but this just pales compared to how much more efficient the gun is in killing people in the US.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Open it up for research, and I think we can find some real answers, causes, and solutions. Until then the argument is moot really, with out actual research, it's just a bunch of biased slanted discussions, about what I think, and what you think, and people that don't really understand the data, making sweeping allegations.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    If anything, your article just shows how inured to gun violence the nation has become. Our president , who tweets about the knife violence here in the UK, but this just pales compared to how much more efficient the gun is in killing people in the US.
    Are acid attacks still a thing here in the UK?
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvv321 View Post
    Open it up for research, and I think we can find some real answers, causes, and solutions. Until then the argument is moot really, with out actual research, it's just a bunch of biased slanted discussions, about what I think, and what you think, and people that don't really understand the data, making sweeping allegations.
    What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?

    These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.

    Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?



    Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.


    Please let me know why you think that we shouldn't do research on the subject? Dave's link is a single small data point, that can be slanted multiple ways, actual research requires much more. This is EXACTLY why legitimate research needs to be done. I get the feeling you think it says one thing, which you agree with, and you believe supports your world view. If you are so confident that is true, please call your representatives and demand they allow research be done on this subject, so you can have even more ammo.



    These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.
    I think we know where everyone stands on this subject. It's been discussed to death. There are really only two camps. Less talk more action is required and research is the first step in understanding.


    Finally I think it's hilarious that a society that has reaped so much good from research, including the internet, is so willing to deny it when it comes to certain subjects, and all the sudden it's not valid, and we shouldn't do it.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?

    These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.

    Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.
    This nation's preeminent public health research organization can't perform any research on gun violence, thanks to the NRA (the Dickey amendment). Let's change that obscene situation to start.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvv321 View Post
    Please let me know why you think that we shouldn't do research on the subject? Dave's link is a single small data point, that can be slanted multiple ways, actual research requires much more. This is EXACTLY why legitimate research needs to be done. I get the feeling you think it says one thing, which you agree with, and you believe supports your world view. If you are so confident that is true, please call your representatives and demand they allow research be done on this subject, so you can have even more ammo.
    Based on your response, my post may not have been clear. I’m very skeptical of all links to research. Especially when I have no idea who funded the research, the methods & goals involved. I believe most good folks end their due diligence on a topic when they find a link they agree with. Dave’s link seemed valid & addressed a very, very specific point. But I don’t think his link & others shouldn’t be open to challenge. And more to my point, these interesting discussions should not become a big link-hunt, where we all just search for & post links that agree with our own opinions.

    I absolutely never said we shouldn’t perform research on the subject.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    Based on your response, my post may not have been clear. I’m very skeptical of all links to research. Especially when I have no idea who funded the research, the methods & goals involved. I believe most good folks end their due diligence on a topic when they find a link they agree with. Dave’s link seemed valid & addressed a very, very specific point. But I don’t think his link & others shouldn’t be open to challenge. And more to my point, these interesting discussions should not become a big link-hunt, where we all just search for & post links that agree with our own opinions.
    Right, This is exactly why legitimate research addresses all of these concerns. Sigh. Actual research must reveal their funding sources, methods and goals, how do people not know this? Frankly I think the government should fund this, and frankly does fund most legit research, again how do you think you got the internet?


    I absolutely never said we shouldn’t perform research on the subject.
    Then do something, and let your will be known to your representatives! put your money where your mouth is.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Furthermore legitimate research is vetted through peer review.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvv321 View Post
    Right, This is exactly why legitimate research addresses all of these concerns. Sigh. Actual research must reveal their funding sources, methods and goals, how do people not know this?
    .
    Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one? How many folks reading the discussion verify the methods and funding of research before treating as gospel fact?
    Glenn Thompson
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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one?
    Legitimate research isn't being done on Internet forums.... Answer, I think that the gen pop just posts crap, true or not, that supports their world view, just like you have. This is EXACTLY why we have professionals that have dedicated their entire life to research, and those are the people we have tied the hands of in this crisis, the only people with the tools to even start to truly understand the issue. This isn't going to be solved on internet forums, and until we unleash the power of the people that have again, spent their entire lives doing legit, peer reviewed research, we will not have any answers, and it will just devolve in to this. People screaming about this vs that, posting crap and interpreting it the way they see fit.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one? How many folks reading the discussion verify the methods and funding of research before treating as gospel fact?
    I'd settle for some CDC research for starters. But what they were finding in the 1990s didn't bode well for the gun lobby.
     

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    Default Re: We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

     

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