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  • Yes

    157 84.86%
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    28 15.14%
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Thread: The Vaccine Thread

  1. #1481
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by classtimesailer View Post
    Disclaimer: Study funded by Moderna and Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation (Bill Gates).
    Yes, well, that’s how medicine development works, you know? The companies do their own work, document it thoroughly and publicly report.

    You should pick apart the methodology if there are flaws. The funding source alone is not a flaw.

  2. #1482
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by classtimesailer View Post
    Disclaimer: Study funded by Moderna and Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation (Bill Gates).
    Per the previous adage: It's good to be the person who asks for an explanation as to why the anvil might be heavy, who determined it is heavy, and why we should care that it is heavy, rather than the person who simply accepts that the anvil is heavy and may hurt their feet.

    That being said, nearly all pharmaceutical research is funded by the pharmaceutical companies developing the drugs. I've worked in both academic labs which perform contract work for pharmaceutical companies and I've worked for the companies themselves. Both of these environments include people with confirmation bias and people seeking to disprove hypotheses, as per the scientific method. Such is the nature of research. In my experience, bias is no more common within pharma than within the labs that independently research developing drugs. The purpose of publication and peer review is to control for potential bias. This is a pretty basic facet of scientific research.
    "Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."

  3. #1483
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by classtimesailer View Post
    Disclaimer: Study funded by Moderna and Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation (Bill Gates).
    I get that the materials used in the study (as in actual vaccine doses) are provided by Moderna, and that the manufacture of those doses per se are partially funded by Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation ("CEPI"); what I'm not seeing is anything saying that CEPI (or Gates himself) directly funded the study. The actual disclosure from the article (list taken from the article, bold emphasis original, underlining + italics added) is reproduced below, and it contradicts at least the part of your statement re: "Study funded by Moderna and Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation (Bill Gates)." (emphases added).
    This work used samples from the phase 1 mRNA-1273 study (NCT04283461) (9, 28). The study was conducted in collaboration with ModernaTX and funding for the manufacture of mRNA-1273 phase 1 material was provided by the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation. We would like to thank E.O. Saphire for providing the spike plasmids and the LJI Clinical Core for healthy donor enrollment and blood sample procurement. Funding: The mRNA-1273 phase 1 study was sponsored and primarily funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), National Institutes of Health (NIH), Bethesda, MD; in part with federal funds from the NIAID under grant awards UM1AI148373, to Kaiser Washington; UM1AI148576, UM1AI148684, and NIH P51 OD011132, to Emory University; NIH AID AI149644, and contract award HHSN272201500002C, to Emmes. This work was funded by the NIH NIAID under awards AI142742 (Cooperative Centers for Human Immunology) (A.S., S.C.) and NIH contract Nr. 75N9301900065 (D.W., A.S.). This work was additionally supported in part by LJI Institutional Funds and the NIAID under K08 award AI135078 (J.M.D.)
    In other words, the contribution by CEPI (to which Gates contributes a minority amount, see below), is already wholly present in the contribution of materials from Moderna; and the actual study (as opposed to the materials used) is financially supported by federal government grants.

    Then again, you have mentioned your distrust of Bill Gates on one other occasion, so perhaps it's illustrative to clarify what CEPI is (taken from an archived page of its website).

    CEPI was founded in Davos by the governments of Norway and India, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Wellcome Trust, and the World Economic Forum.
    To date, CEPI has secured financial support from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Wellcome Trust, the European Commission, and the governments of Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Ethiopia, Germany, Japan, Mexico, Norway and the United Kingdom.
    Additional investment from sovereign governments, the private sector and philanthropic foundations has also been provided to support our urgent call for $2 billion to support our COVID-19 vaccine programmes.
    In response to call the Governments of Austria, Australia, Belgium, Canada, European Commission, Finland, France, Greece,Germany, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Norway, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Serbia, Spain, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom, alongside private sector companies and donations through the UN Foundation COVID-19 Solidarity Response Fund, have pledged financial contributions $1.4 billion towards the $2 billion CEPI urgently needs.
    From an article by CBS in 2017 (time of founding of CEPI), the funding of CEPI up to the current pandemic as follows:

    So far, CEPI has an initial investment of $460 million from private, public and philanthropic organizations. Norway plans to invest around $120 million in the initial five years, Japan will invest $25 million a year for a total of $125 million, and Germany will initially commit $10.6 million. Additionally, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and Wellcome will invest $100 million each over the next five years.
    I've seen reports that Gates donated an additional $20 million to CEPI directly in response to COVID. So that's $120 million to date, as compared to billions from national governments. Perhaps you have evidence stating that Gate's involvement is more nefarious than what is publicly known, but until you produce such documents, your inclusion of Gates himself in your objection to this study is a) not based on any evidence and b) nothing more than a red herring.

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