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View Poll Results: Will you take the vaccine as soon as it is made available to your category?

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    165 85.49%
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    28 14.51%
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Thread: The Vaccine Thread

  1. #1381
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    How the Delta Variant Infiltrated an Elementary School Classroom

    The kids were too young for the vaccine, 12 out of 24 became infected, including every student in the front row. It eventually spread to at least 26 people. That’s how 1 turns into 26.

    The teacher was unvaccinated.
    They broke protocol and read aloud to the class, mask off.
    They were symptomatic for two days before getting tested.
    In my opinion, this teacher should be in another line of work.
    90+% of new infections in Belgium are Delta. I went for a chat earlier this week with one of the goldsmiths I know, and his 11 year old daughter had a narrow escape just a week prior from an outbreak within her scout camp where more than half the participants ended up testing positive. They hadn't identified the source, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were an analogous scenario.

    In Flanders, over 90% of adults are fully inoculated, but all it takes is one vector to spread it amongst children.
    Chikashi Miyamoto
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  2. #1382
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.
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  3. #1383
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    In my opinion, this teacher should be in another line of work.
    I agree. If I could mete out justice, he or she would be providing services in the local prison commissary.
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  4. #1384
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HorsCat View Post
    I agree. If I could mete out justice, he or she would be providing services in the local prison commissary.
    Also in CA.

    https://achieve.lausd.net/covidtestingappt
    Los Angeles Unified is providing COVID testing for all students and staff.

    All students and employees, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, returning for in-person instruction must participate in baseline and ongoing weekly COVID testing. This is in accordance with the most recent guidance from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. Baseline testing begins on Monday, August 2.

    Tests are free, quick, easy, and your personal information will remain confidential!


    Optics
    https://www.utla.net/news/utla-board...ausd-employees
    The UTLA Board of Directors has voted overwhelmingly to support a vaccine mandate for all LAUSD employees. The UTLA Board had previously voted to not oppose a vaccine mandate. This stronger position comes as the Delta variant continues to surge in our communities and as students and staff prepare for a return to full-time, in-person learning next week.

    TH, does the NYT story mention that the children were masked as they are in all CA schools?

    Investigation and Findings
    The outbreak location was an elementary school in Marin County, California, which serves 205 students in prekindergarten through eighth grade and has 24 staff members. Each grade includes 20 to 25 students in single classrooms. Other than two teachers, one of whom was the index patient, all school staff members were vaccinated (verified in California’s Immunization Registry). The index patient became symptomatic on May 19 with nasal congestion and fatigue. This teacher reported attending social events during May 13–16 but did not report any known COVID-19 exposures and attributed symptoms to allergies. The teacher continued working during May 17–21, subsequently experiencing cough, subjective fever, and headache. The school required teachers and students to mask while indoors; interviews with parents of infected students suggested that students’ adherence to masking and distancing guidelines in line with CDC recommendations (3) was high in class.


    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e2.htm
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  5. #1385
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    90+% of new infections in Belgium are Delta. I went for a chat earlier this week with one of the goldsmiths I know, and his 11 year old daughter had a narrow escape just a week prior from an outbreak within her scout camp where more than half the participants ended up testing positive. They hadn't identified the source, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were an analogous scenario.

    In Flanders, over 90% of adults are fully inoculated, but all it takes is one vector to spread it amongst children.
    And with the way Delta is working, that vector could come from the 90% inoculated.

    I am not sure how businesses will operate without some form of liability insurance-approved testing regimen. The classroom model has a teacher evidently violating protocol, so maybe that provides legal cover for the school system, but what happens if a kid gets infected by a teacher and then infects a family member who dies? Or the kid dies?

    Everyone talks about the economic costs of systematic testing, quarantines and isolation, but what is the cost of asymptomatic transmission, waning immunity and unvaccinated children in schools?

    I feel like the push for in-school instruction is partly about healthy childhood development and mostly about childcare. And I am not being dismissive of the need for childcare. The US economy is wired to work only if parents have external childcare support. I think that's just being underlined in red here. It is a problem.
    Last edited by j44ke; 08-28-2021 at 02:48 PM.
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  6. #1386
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    And with the way Delta is working, that vector could come from the 90% inoculated.

    I am not sure how businesses will operate without some form of liability insurance-approved testing regimen. The classroom model has a teacher evidently violating protocol, so maybe that provides legal cover for the school system, but what happens if a kid gets infected by a teacher and then infects a family member who dies? Or the kid dies?
    J44ke, it's not certain the teacher was violating protocol. Well, she did remove her mask....

    Some CA teachers unions opposed mandatory staff vaccination in favor of weekly testing. This teacher also reported "subjective" symptoms so likely a mild case and not unlike disease progression in many breakthrough cases. In other words, the shorter incubation period and allergy like symptoms have fooled many into a false sense of security.
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  7. #1387
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by beeatnik View Post
    J44ke, it's not certain the teacher was violating protocol. Well, she did remove her mask....

    Some CA teachers unions opposed mandatory staff vaccination in favor of weekly testing. This teacher also reported "subjective" symptoms so likely a mild case and not unlike disease progression in many breakthrough cases. In other words, the shorter incubation period and allergy like symptoms have fooled many into a false sense of security.
    Oh definitely - would not be surprised if the play has been “rescripted”.
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  8. #1388
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Speaking of studies, wife received the following:
    survey.jpg

    Interesting Australian affiliation

    monash.jpg

    monash2.jpg
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  9. #1389
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    And with the way Delta is working, that vector could come from the 90% inoculated.
    Yep.

    Wear a bloody mask.
    Chikashi Miyamoto
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  10. #1390
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Yep.

    Wear a bloody mask.
    I thought they don't work as well when wet?

    /s
    Dan in Oregon

    ---------------

    The wheel is round. The hill lasts as long as it lasts. That's a fact. Everything else is pure theory.
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  11. #1391
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Went into town (we live 15 miles north of town) to do some quick grocery shopping. I wore a mask because I know as a vaccinated person that I could still potentially contract Covid and not manifest symptoms then spread to others. I heard a few comments and saw very few masks. This is the worst county in AZ for Covid behind Navajo and Apache which have skewed data from small communities. It just floors me that people will continue to behave in a way that will lead to their illness.
    Weight Doper
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  12. #1392
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    The lack of concern for others is what gets me. They (most of them anyway) arguably do have the odds in their favor to survive, but they are deliberately being part of the cycle of transmission that is literally killing others.

    And dying is just one bad outcome of this illness. I still can't shake my heart rate going crazy and getting lightheaded and short of breath when I do anything too ""strenuous. And what's strenuous now is far cry from what it was. Walking a hill in my neighborhood when the sun is beating down--HR 135. I've tried to jog 3 times this month during the day: HR hit 204, 185, 171. Stays above 100 for a few hours. Makes me nervous, but I'm frustrated too. Jogging at night, I can go a bit farther, but still hit 160s and start to feel bad, so I just have to wait and hope I improve (or maybe try for Moderna vice Pfizer for shot #3 and see if that alters anything--some anecdotal stuff out there about long haulers improving after vaccination)
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  13. #1393
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    Went into town (we live 15 miles north of town) to do some quick grocery shopping. I wore a mask because I know as a vaccinated person that I could still potentially contract Covid and not manifest symptoms then spread to others. I heard a few comments and saw very few masks. This is the worst county in AZ for Covid behind Navajo and Apache which have skewed data from small communities. It just floors me that people will continue to behave in a way that will lead to their illness.
    I wonder if people would be as dismissive of masks, if the early message were: wear homemade ones to help others; wear nonwoven (read, surgical) ones to help others and give yourself a better chance; save the N95s for first responders and medical personnel.

    It's incredibly difficult to get people to do things out of altruism, but one would like to think that there are some who could be swayed be self-interest.

    Instead, all masks less protective than a N95 get lumped together as items to wear to help others, and I think that perception has held for large swath of the public.
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  14. #1394
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jimcav View Post
    I just have to wait and hope I improve (or maybe try for Moderna vice Pfizer for shot #3 and see if that alters anything--some anecdotal stuff out there about long haulers improving after vaccination)
    My son had Covid in January, likely brought it with him from winter break. USNA was doing EKG and in the case of my son and others, a cardiac stress test after recovery. His company (30th, last for everything), got Moderna in March and April. It could be a placebo effect, but he felt much more recovered after the second shot. He was having some fatigue and general malaise even though the testing showed no issues with his heart.
    Weight Doper
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  15. #1395
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    My son had Covid in January, likely brought it with him from winter break. USNA was doing EKG and in the case of my son and others, a cardiac stress test after recovery. His company (30th, last for everything), got Moderna in March and April. It could be a placebo effect, but he felt much more recovered after the second shot. He was having some fatigue and general malaise even though the testing showed no issues with his heart.
    Thx! based on similar reports I read, I’d hoped for Moderna. When I signed up at the VA I was told
    If get moderna. But when I actually went l, they had Pfizer and I thought more important to get a vaccine than whine about which one. I do intend to ask my doctor to prescribe Moderna for my 3rd in a few months
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  16. #1396
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jimcav View Post
    Thx! based on similar reports I read, I’d hoped for Moderna. When I signed up at the VA I was told
    If get moderna. But when I actually went l, they had Pfizer and I thought more important to get a vaccine than whine about which one. I do intend to ask my doctor to prescribe Moderna for my 3rd in a few months
    The VA here had Moderna. There really wasn't much Pfizer in the region. In March, they had a limited supply of J&J but they were giving it to homeless and shut-ins that likely wouldn't show up for a second dose. I expect the local VA clinic to offer the booster, my eight-month point is in December. My wife got the J&J but mostly because she hates needles. USNA is in masks even though they are all vaccinated. At least they're not locked down and can all eat together at King Hall.
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  17. #1397
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    god fearing person said he wont get vaccinated because god would protect him.. man gets covid and dies.. goes to pearly gates and says "why did i die, i thought you would protect me"... god says "i did protect you, i sent you vaccine in record time, i gave you two doses and medicines, why didnt you get in those life rafts!
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  18. #1398
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Speaking of Moderna, my daughter's former colleague contracted Covid-19 before he had the chance to get inoculated, got back on his feet, got 2 doses of Moderna, and recently got symptomatic again. Not ill enough to be hospitalised but suffering nonetheless. Presumably, the second round was Delta.
    Chikashi Miyamoto
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  19. #1399
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Speaking of Moderna, my daughter's former colleague contracted Covid-19 before he had the chance to get inoculated, got back on his feet, got 2 doses of Moderna, and recently got symptomatic again. Not ill enough to be hospitalised but suffering nonetheless. Presumably, the second round was Delta.
    Vaccinated, infected, then reinfected seems to be more rare than infected, vaccinated, reinfected.

    Model 3 - previously infected vs. vaccinated and previously infected individuals
    In model 3, we matched 14,029 persons. Baseline characteristics of the groups are presented in Table 1b. Examining previously infected individuals to those who were both previously infected and received a single dose of the vaccine, we found that the latter group had a significant 0.53-fold (95% CI, 0.3 to 0.92) (Table 4a) decreased risk for reinfection, as 20 had a positive RT-PCR test, compared to 37 in the previously infected and unvaccinated group. Symptomatic disease was present in 16 single dose vaccinees and in 23 of their unvaccinated counterparts. One COVID-19-related hospitalization occurred in the unvaccinated previously infected group. No COVID- 19-related mortality was recorded.

    We conducted a further sub-analysis, compelling the single-dose vaccine to be administered after the positive RT-PCR test. This subset represented 81% of the previously-infected-and-vaccinated study group. When performing this analysis, we found a similar, though not significant, trend of decreased risk of reinfection, with an OR of 0.68 (95% CI, 0.38 to 1.21, P-value=0.188).


    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...415v1.full.pdf
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  20. #1400
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    Default Re: The Vaccine Thread

    in my travels across the American South this week, i’ve see far more concern and talk about 13 dead american soldiers at the tail end of a 20 year colonial occupation than I have seen about the complete lack of ICU beds, staffing shortages and oxygen shortages in the regions I have traveled through.

    I was on the WV/VA border the other day- podunk cafe had a NO MASKS sign AND 13 empty place settings. This was a town that had it’s hospital closed in 2019 by the big chain that owns all the other hospitals. When i spent time in the big chain VA ICU 2 weeks ago(thanks BMX!) the staff said the majority of their in-patient beds were filled by West Virginan’s that had traveled at least 90 miles to reach the hospital.

    what the actual fuck is wrong with this country?
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