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Thread: Texas

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    The statistics here are plenty incentive to regulate gun safety, which includes but is not limited to who is legally allowed to own a gun of any type.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...xceptionalism/

    I am sure that article is behind a paywall, but sometimes if you search for the title contained in the URL, you can read it for free.

    Ted Cruz was pressed by a British reporter and came up looking like a sweaty sputtering man in too small suit. Too bad that a British reporter is required to ask an American politician the tough questions to their face.
    One of the graphics:


    Nicholas Kristof's piece also had some very compelling statistics, and graphics by Bill Marsh:
    How to Reduce Shootings

    This one, "Fewer Guns = Fewer Deaths" shows the gun ownership rates by state, and states in red have gun death rates above the national average of 10.5 per 100,000 people.

    Lowest 5: Hawaii, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, New York.
    Highest 5: Vermont, Mississippi, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming.


    This one shows gun death rate per 100,000 people (25 max) on the y axis, and the x axis being weakness of gun laws (weakest on right)

    Stronger gun laws are correlated with lower death rates (lower left)
    The states if red (upper right) received an "F" for gun law grades.
    Last edited by thollandpe; 05-26-2022 at 02:08 PM.
    Treed Howling, Personal Etymologist

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin

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    Default Re: Texas

    No sane person can deny that there is a problem with inappropriate use of guns in the US. It is time to clear the elephants from the room who insist that there is no problem, and that there is nothing we can do about it.

    They always say, “Now is not the time.” Their actions have shown us - They think that NEVER is the time.

    It is time to do something about it. The government actually has suppressed research on this topic (see Dickey amendment). We need to get smart, knowledgeable people working on this, banging ideas into strategies and testing them. Find out what works and what doesn’t. Keep what works.

    As Mark Twain said, “The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and starting on the first one.”

    As davids says, GO !

    By the way, thank you for posting that long list davids
    Mark Walberg
    Building bike frames for fun since 1973.

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Walberg View Post
    No sane person can deny that there is a problem with inappropriate use of guns in the US. It is time to clear the elephants from the room who insist that there is no problem, and that there is nothing we can do about it.

    They always say, “Now is not the time.” Their actions have shown us - They think that NEVER is the time.

    It is time to do something about it. The government actually has suppressed research on this topic (see Dickey amendment). We need to get smart, knowledgeable people working on this, banging ideas into strategies and testing them. Find out what works and what doesn’t. Keep what works.

    As Mark Twain said, “The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and starting on the first one.”

    As davids says, GO !

    By the way, thank you for posting that long list davids
    We already know what works. Look at the rest of the developed world.

    Everything that's been put forward has been rejected by gun nuts as unreasonable burden on their "rights" as the shifting definition of the Second Amendment -- aided by increasingly conservative judges -- has become looser and looser.

    Mandated licensing and testing for ownership. Liability insurance requirements for gun owners. Limits on sale of ammunition in bulk. Limits on magazine size. Limits on semi-automatic rifle and handgun sales. Removal of the corporate liability shield for gun manufacturers. Limits on the sale of body armor. Requirement that ammunition be stored separately from a gun itself. Red flag laws and seizure of weapons. A national floor for gun regulation to ensure consistent enforcement of rules across all 50 states.

    All of this would help and would work. All of it is a nonstarter with politicos representing the gun nuts.

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Ted Cruz was pressed by a British reporter and came up looking like a sweaty sputtering man in too small suit. Too bad that a British reporter is required to ask an American politician the tough questions to their face.
    Isn't that how he always looks?

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    Isn't that how he always looks?
    “Oleaginous.” That’s the best (family friendly) adjective for Cruz.

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    We already know what works. Look at the rest of the developed world.

    Everything that's been put forward has been rejected by gun nuts as unreasonable burden on their "rights" as the shifting definition of the Second Amendment -- aided by increasingly conservative judges -- has become looser and looser.

    Mandated licensing and testing for ownership. Liability insurance requirements for gun owners. Limits on sale of ammunition in bulk. Limits on magazine size. Limits on semi-automatic rifle and handgun sales. Removal of the corporate liability shield for gun manufacturers. Limits on the sale of body armor. Requirement that ammunition be stored separately from a gun itself. Red flag laws and seizure of weapons. A national floor for gun regulation to ensure consistent enforcement of rules across all 50 states.

    All of this would help and would work. All of it is a nonstarter with politicos representing the gun nuts.
    Just out of curiosity, why the limit on body armor? I only learned that body armor was even regulated when I wanted a vest for myself for safety purposes (use of a gun in small spaces makes me concerned and I thought protecting my vital organs was an obvious thing to do). Are most mass shooters wearing body armor? I know there have been a few high-profile cases but I was not aware of a correlation between body armor and shooting deaths (like the obvious correlations between assault rifles, handguns, extended magazines, bulk ammunitions...etc.). Not trying to challenge your logic here, just genuinely curious.
    "Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    Time to repeal the second amendment.
    Time for a whole new document. It’s not 1787 anymore and we’re seeing too many people acting as if what was relevant then must be the same today. The world has evolved and so must we, and that includes the framework of our legal system. Basically, we need a whole new constitution. Evolve or die, and we’re dying.

    Of course, this won’t happen either.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Octave View Post
    Just out of curiosity, why the limit on body armor? I only learned that body armor was even regulated when I wanted a vest for myself for safety purposes (use of a gun in small spaces makes me concerned and I thought protecting my vital organs was an obvious thing to do). Are most mass shooters wearing body armor? I know there have been a few high-profile cases but I was not aware of a correlation between body armor and shooting deaths (like the obvious correlations between assault rifles, handguns, extended magazines, bulk ammunitions...etc.). Not trying to challenge your logic here, just genuinely curious.
    Increasingly it's part of the spree shooter package du jour. Get your AR-15, strap on some body armor, and go to town. James Holmes, the Aurora theater shooter who wounded 70, nearly managed to escape the scene as cops thought he was one of them with his tactical gear. Devin Kelley, the Sutherland Springs shooter, survived while wearing body armor.

    So yeah, if it's an item on the shopping list for someone who wants to commit a spree shooting, we should be limiting it's access to the general public.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    Time for a whole new document. It’s not 1787 anymore and we’re seeing too many people acting as if what was relevant then must be the same today. [snip]
    Mr. Madison describes 2022 pretty well, seems little has changed in human nature.
    Federalist #10

    The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders, ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions, whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other, than to co-operate for their common good.11 So strong is this propensity of mankind, to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions, and excite their most violent conflicts. But the most common and durable source of factions, has been the various and unequal distribution of property.

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    Default Re: Texas

    Forgive me if this has been suggested before.

    America has a wonderful way of distancing ourselves from the realities our policy decisions create…until someone throws the realities in our face. Jim Crow was fine and dandy until Emmett Till’s brutally beaten corpse was plastered across a magazine cover. Let some parents release the photographs of kids with their heads exploded, and let’s all look at the reality. Fuck it, let’s do a before/after, because as much as I hear people saying legislators need to look at the horrors, those puppets represent an electorate. Let the electorate regularly encounter the horrors our gun policies create. Let moms explain to their kids what that blood soaked classroom is about as they checkout in the grocery store. Let dads explain to their daughters why the news is plastered with horrific images of kids just like them. I know I was shown an image of a shotgun-based suicide once 30 years ago and I will never forget it. Let us never forget what our laws have enabled.
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by mjbabcock View Post
    Forgive me if this has been suggested before.

    America has a wonderful way of distancing ourselves from the realities our policy decisions create…until someone throws the realities in our face. Jim Crow was fine and dandy until Emmett Till’s brutally beaten corpse was plastered across a magazine cover. Let some parents release the photographs of kids with their heads exploded, and let’s all look at the reality. Fuck it, let’s do a before/after, because as much as I hear people saying legislators need to look at the horrors, those puppets represent an electorate. Let the electorate regularly encounter the horrors our gun policies create. Let moms explain to their kids what that blood soaked classroom is about as they checkout in the grocery store. Let dads explain to their daughters why the news is plastered with horrific images of kids just like them. I know I was shown an image of a shotgun-based suicide once 30 years ago and I will never forget it. Let us never forget what our laws have enabled.
    Jason, I wish that what you were suggesting (although there are lots of other things like just common decency and respect to other living beings) would work. I have been involved in media and in several non-profits working hard on this issue for far too many decades. In one case, we did try exactly what you suggested with a few (and it was a very few who could deal with it psychologically which I totally understand) parents giving us pictures and before and after for lack of a polite way to put it.

    Sadly, it was met with not only the usual (the gun didn’t do it a person did) and the change the narrative non-sensically like Ted Cruz…put an armed guard at every school it will only cost 9 billion and we gave 40 billion to Ukraine.

    There were even media who refused to run the ads as it was “too shocking” “likely to upset some viewers”. And these were the same media who had supported us financially and were run by the same media executives who knew some of the people who were murdered personally.

    The biggest frustration that I have is when I see the pain in people who have lost a child or other relative to random gun murder each and every time another murderous spree occurs and we still haven’t been able to land the plane of rational laws. Hell, we can’t even seem to have rational discourse about it.

    It is horribly wrong that kids in Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine and all too many places grow up with fear of violent death. But why is it ok that American kids have to grow up with that fear and practicing “active shooter” drills?
    « If I knew what I was doing, I’d be doing it right now »

    -Jon Mandel

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    Default Re: Texas

    So does it take a gunman at an RNC convention? A Oklahoma City style explosion at an NRA event? I mean…the radicalized right is seemingly impenetrable at this point…so if they can’t be swayed with words, what’s left?
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by mjbabcock View Post
    So does it take a gunman at an RNC convention? A Oklahoma City style explosion at an NRA event? I mean…the radicalized right is seemingly impenetrable at this point…so if they can’t be swayed with words, what’s left?
    I doubt that would work because it would “prove out” what they say about people not guns in that crowd’s mind….I can see the headline in the NY Post “Crazed Anitfa Lib kills hundreds in murderous misuse of fine weapon”.

    When I refered to rational discourse…it is not only words that don’t get through it is thoughts.

    I remember a late friend of mine used to say, when we were having a business disagreement on what needed to be done, “the problem here is you are using logic”. Then it was only about business but this is lives so it doesn’t make me smile and defuse my emotions but I try to remember it so I don’t give up trying to help in any way to solve the problem.
    « If I knew what I was doing, I’d be doing it right now »

    -Jon Mandel

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    Default Re: Texas

    I know the history of Black Panthers weaponizing themselves as an act of empowerment drove anti-gun legislation in the 70’s and 80’s…basically because white folks were scared of black folks. This seems to be the M.O. of the right. They use fear to mobilize the voters. They use fear of immigrants, fear of people taking their guns, fear of female sexuality. Maybe there is a need to pull a page from Morrison’s Song of Solomon’s “Seven Days” group and instill fear in the NRA’s voting block.

    I know violence begets violence…but maybe it’s time obstinance begets violence as well.

    I should add that I’m vehemently non-violent…but damn this is frustrating.
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    Increasingly it's part of the spree shooter package du jour. Get your AR-15, strap on some body armor, and go to town. James Holmes, the Aurora theater shooter who wounded 70, nearly managed to escape the scene as cops thought he was one of them with his tactical gear. Devin Kelley, the Sutherland Springs shooter, survived while wearing body armor.

    So yeah, if it's an item on the shopping list for someone who wants to commit a spree shooting, we should be limiting it's access to the general public.
    Interesting article yesterday on this topic. Too many fat middle age GI Joes coopting the Seal Team Six appearance. If active/retired actual special forces called them out on it, it could start to turn the tide on this bullshit costumes for grownups industry. Or maybe not.

    https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/202...erator/367401/
    my name is Matt

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    Default Re: Texas

    In 2016, some dark-horse, long-shot, jack-ass, fat-fuck, comb-over, serial-rapist carnival barker politician said “They're laughing at us, at our stupidity”.

    Turns out that he was wrong, just like he was about a lot of things. Because they’re crying with us.

    Texas shooting: America is killing itself, as the Republican Party looks the other way — Le Monde

    A young Texan killed 19 students and two teachers at an elementary school in Ulvade on Tuesday. In the face of tragedy after tragedy, Republican elected officials continue to oppose any legislation that would regulate the gun market.

    Carnage at an American school, the endless distress of families, a solemn speech from the president, then nothing, until the next one. Americans know this cycle of despair by heart since the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012. The one in Parkland, in 2018, changed nothing despite the exceptional activism of students who had escaped. They believed it was possible to bring a country sick of its violence back to its senses and remind elected officials of their responsibilities, but they failed. If there is any American exceptionalism, it is to tolerate the fact that schools in the United States are regularly transformed into bloody shooting ranges.

    The unbearable happened this time in the small town of Uvalde, Texas, and took the lives of 19 students and two teachers of an elementary school just two days before vacation. The 18-year-old alleged perpetrator was killed by law enforcement. This tragedy came 10 days after a racially-motivated mass shooting at a New York state supermarket and another at a California church. In each case, the determination of the alleged killers was not met with any legal safeguards that would have complicated access to the firearms used.

    Indeed, America is killing itself and the Republican Party is looking the other way, ideologically complicit in one tragedy after another. Decades of brainwashing have meant that its elected representatives no longer need even the iron grip of the main gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, which is riddled with crises, to oppose the slightest legislation that would provide a framework for this particularly lucrative market. The defense of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, understood in its most absolutist sense, has become a quasi-sacred duty that now escapes any questioning. The families of victims must be content with the prayers of elected officials, who are not stingy with them.

    Thus, the state that was the scene of the last bloodbath after eight other mass shootings in 13 years found nothing better, just a year ago, than to abolish gun permits for people aged 21 or older. "It's time" for Texas to align itself with the most lenient states in this area, argued the governor of this solid conservative bastion, Greg Abbott.

    More and more guns: This is the only Republican credo. Americans bought nearly 20 million guns in 2021, the second-largest amount in American history. They also had more than 20,000 gun deaths, not counting suicides, which are even more numerous, and 693 shootings resulted in four or more injuries. Republicans are clearly unable to establish a causal link between the two phenomena. One despairs to imagine them expending the same energy to prevent killings, the perpetrators of which are overwhelmingly men, as they expend selflessly to prevent women from having control over their own bodies.

    The dictatorship of the minority had already wielded its power after the Sandy Hook massacre when the Senate wanted to pass background checks for gun buyers, a common sense measure supported by an overwhelming majority of Americans. Elected officials representing 118 million of their fellow citizens were able to defeat those nominated by 194 million. There is every reason to believe that the same would be true today in this country trapped in this madness.
    Treed Howling, Personal Etymologist

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin

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    Default Re: Texas

    One serious point and then I'll explode with some frustration.

    First Heller vs D.C. has destroyed this country. Could not have been more wrongly decided and much of the violence today springs from that disaster of a decision. Owning guns is one thing but they must be regulated. Far too many ways to avoid background checks and those under 21, who can't drink , gamble in a casino and marry in some states are allowed to own guns? It's ridiculous. Someone wants to shoot a weapon let them join the army and learn how to do so under supervision.

    Now the rant. Texas today feels more like a 3rd world country than a state. What is Abbot running? The power grid doesn't work, women are denied abortion, books are burned, minorities are discouraged from voting, police don't protect children -Mike G

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    From my perspective I assume the logical reaction to this would be Texas allowing the primary school children to bring firearms at school so that they can defend themselves.
    In that veign my take has been Republicans love children, but not as much as they love their guns. -Mike G

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    Default Re: Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by fastupslowdown View Post
    One serious point and then I'll explode with some frustration.

    First Heller vs D.C. has destroyed this country. Could not have been more wrongly decided and much of the violence today springs from that disaster of a decision. Owning guns is one thing but they must be regulated. Far too many ways to avoid background checks and those under 21, who can't drink , gamble in a casino and marry in some states are allowed to own guns? It's ridiculous. Someone wants to shoot a weapon let them join the army and learn how to do so under supervision.

    Now the rant. Texas today feels more like a 3rd world country than a state. What is Abbot running? The power grid doesn't work, women are denied abortion, books are burned, minorities are discouraged from voting, police don't protect children -Mike G
    Agree 100% on your second point. I hesitate to say it, but what does this portend for DeSantis to do next week? He’s got to be beside himself seeing Abbott in the (MAGA) spotlight like this, and these two governors and their respective states seem to be in a race to the bottom with regards to being functional places for US citizens to live these days.

    I can only hope a reckoning is coming for the gun nuts, but my hopes are not high.
    my name is Matt

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    Default Re: Texas

    I wonder what new depths of warped logic will emerge from the NRA convention Friday. With both Trump and Abbott speaking, the real problem was the election was stolen. It's always time to talk about that.

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