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Thread: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

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    Default Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    This is what happens when an industry is totally unregulated.

    Thanks Orrin Hatch, you've really been looking out for Americans.

    NYT Story http://nyti.ms/1DzqJ8T

    The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.

    The investigation came as a welcome surprise to health experts who have long complained about the quality and safety of dietary supplements, which are exempt from the strict regulatory oversight applied to prescription drugs.

    The Food and Drug Administration has targeted individual supplements found to contain dangerous ingredients. But the announcement Monday was the first time that a law enforcement agency had threatened the biggest retail and drugstore chains with legal action for selling what it said were deliberately misleading herbal products.

    Among the attorney general’s findings was a popular store brand of ginseng pills at Walgreens, promoted for “physical endurance and vitality,” that contained only powdered garlic and rice. At Walmart, the authorities found that its ginkgo biloba, a Chinese plant promoted as a memory enhancer, contained little more than powdered radish, houseplants and wheat — despite a claim on the label that the product was wheat- and gluten-free.

    Three out of six herbal products at Target — ginkgo biloba, St. John’s wort and valerian root, a sleep aid — tested negative for the herbs on their labels. But they did contain powdered rice, beans, peas and wild carrots. And at GNC, the agency said, it found pills with unlisted ingredients used as fillers, like powdered legumes, the class of plants that includes peanuts and soybeans, a hazard for people with allergies.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    That's full on. Talk about deliberate cheating. This makes doping pale in comparison.
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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Orrin Hatch's true legacy. Thanks, Orrin!

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    who will be the first in the peleton to claim he wasn't doping (or eating spanish beef) & blame it on tainted, unregulated supplements?

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by one60 View Post
    who will be the first in the peleton to claim he wasn't doping (or eating spanish beef) & blame it on tainted, unregulated supplements?
    Nobody would believe it, since, according to this report, most store-bought "supplements" are 100% made of sand, clay, and bug parts.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by monadnocky View Post
    Nobody would believe it, since, according to this report, most store-bought "supplements" are 100% made of sand, clay, and bug parts.
    Or then there's this... Herbal products made effective by including active drug products.
    Makers of tainted supplements have criminal pasts
    My name is David Moeny

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Orrin is just fighting against job killing gummint regulation.

    Besides, maybe those were all homeopathic remedies.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    I don't get it - what's gay marriage got to do with all this?

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    The FDA does not test everything. A close friend is a certified herbalist, and can make a “potion” and sell it to the public without any testing or submitting for testing. She does not, but she can, as long as it’s labeled “properly”.

    That scares the hell out of me.

    A small sample below>>>

    Why the FDA Does Not Approve Supplements

    David A Kessler, M.D, J.D.

    This article is a slightly condensed version of a talk given at the Good Housekeeping Institute Consumer Safety Symposium on Dietary Supplements and Herbal Remedies, held in New York City on March 3, 1998. Dr. Kessler was FDA Commissioner from 1990 through 1997 and currently is dean of Yale University School of Medicine.

    >>What about dietary supplements? Well, Congress couldn't in 1990 reach a conclusion on that. Senator Hatch said, "I don't want the same standard for foods, for dietary supplements. Dietary supplements shouldn't have to go through preapproval." Other senators argued for preapproval on those health claims. Congress couldn't agree. So what did it do? In 1990, it said in the Nutrition Labeling Education Act, FDA you go decide whether foods and dietary supplements should have the same standard. Should they be required to both have a preapproval of those health claims or should dietary supplements be treated differently? That's where the controversy began and that's where -- that's where the real debate started.<<

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    I'm glad I wasn't taking my vitamins, probably wouldn't have helped anyway

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    DSHAE (mid-90s) was also pushed by Hatch and a couple other politicians to protect the neutraceutical companies (like Herbalife for example) in their home states.

    DSHAE effectively neuters the FDA. Puts the agency into a position where they can't a priori regulate supplements but must demonstrate that the supplements do actual harm and then can remove them from the market. As y'all know, the FDA has more work than it can handle so chasing all the supplements around is an unfunded mandate and not possible. Which the senators of course fully understand.

    So you end up mostly with inert pills being sold to the uninformed based on all sorts of unsubstantiated anecdotal claims. Problem is some outright dangerous products are out there. I believe the agency does their best here but its like chasing cats or playing whack-a-mole because of the legislation.

    Don't get me wrong, the FDA is far from perfect. But overall the folks there are doing their level best to protect the population.

    Y'all know the saying "if it sounds too good"? Apply that to supplement, probiotic and neutraceutical claims and most of the time you will be right.

    -Mark

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    I worked - briefly - at a natural-foods store in the early 90's, right as the DSHAE legislation was ramping up. The paranoid frenzy about the FDA regulating supplements, vitamins, and what have you was whipping everyone into absolute hysterics. Having customers sign petitions and whatnot. The argument? That FDA oversight would effectively negatively impact the purity of the product.

    I was about 19 when I worked at the store but even as a dumbass teenager I thought the argument was completely void of any logic whatsoever, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together could see the inevitable outcome of this.

    An excellent example of why "gummit regulation" isn't a knee-jerk bad thing.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Makes me feel better about not wasting my coins.

    I wake up every morning eat a bowl of pine needles and cedar shavings, wash it down with a cup of puddle water while sucking on an old rusty 20 penny nail. It is all the vitamins I need, and I know what is in there.

    If it was good enough for paw paw, it's good enough for me.
    ‘The Earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those that are killing it have names and addresses-‘ Utah Phillips

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    as I understood the legislation, it's more aimed at the supplements being proved safe and effective. I think I can handle it if they aren't, because I don't exactly stray from known supplements. The thing that is really bothersome about this scandal is that they are selling garbage as something it's not. So a "multivitamin" might just be rice powder mixed with peanut byproducts. People should go to jail for this, to be perfectly honest.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Any else catch John Oliver last night? It would be interesting to see how precription drugs match up.
    Or maybe poke around some data about how effective many of these things are compared to their claims.

    The one thing that jumped out at me was the statistic that 70% of people (in the USA) are on at least
    one prescription drug. It does seem these days the magic pill is very effective at separating us from our money.
    Somehow i've made it living past 45 without taking a prescription or a vitamin. Must be all the vaccinations
    i got as a tot.



    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    Any else catch John Oliver last night? It would be interesting to see how precription drugs match up.
    Or maybe poke around some data about how effective many of these things are compared to their claims.

    The one thing that jumped out at me was the statistic that 70% of people (in the USA) are on at least
    one prescription drug. It does seem these days the magic pill is very effective at separating us from our money.
    Somehow i've made it living past 45 without taking a prescription or a vitamin. Must be all the vaccinations
    i got as a tot.



    -g
    Grant, I'm no defender of the industry, but as someone who used to work for BigPharma, I can tell you that the scenario described in the article for FDA-regulated drugs is extraordinarily unlikely (if this is what you'r wondering about). Back in the early 00's, the company I was involved with (Schering-Plough, now Merck) was busted for having some foreign material in one of their injectable drugs - if I recall correctly, some mystery green filaments showed up in a few QC controls, and the FDA was immediately notified (the filaments were from some sort of scouring pad that was used, against protocol, on one of the machine involved in the manufacture). Again, if memory serves me right, none of the drug made past this stage, however, Schering was fined 500 million dollars for the oversight.

    Of course, large fines don't guarantee purity. But really, in terms of making it to market, FDA regulated drugs (that's redundant) have to undergo an exponentially more rigorous process compared to vitamins, nutraceuticals, and so forth.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    whor'in Orrin

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Manufacturing purity of pharmaceuticals is a reasonably well controlled process in the USA, most of the EU, many areas ROW. Go outside of the well known manufacturers and countries and there are some tough spots. But in western countries when you buy a drug you can expect the active ingredient and the formulation as promised. That is not to say errors in manufacture can't happen but it's typically not the purposeful fraud like you see with unregulated areas.

    As to efficacy and how well drugs actually work, that is a longer story and depends in great part how efficacy is defined and what the disease is.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Not so much in France and Germany.

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    Default Re: Speaking of conspiracies, have you been taking supplements? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    As to efficacy and how well drugs actually work, that is a longer story and depends in great part how efficacy is defined and what the disease is.
    I recall seeing something about a prescription for cycling being at least as effective
    as many mood altering drugs in kids. Maybe we're on to something here.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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