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Thread: Snow Tires!!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    We had snow here once, 1981 I believe.

    Mike
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    General Tire is owned by the same company that own Gislaved. Arctic Ultimax is a brilliant tire I have used for years, studded and not. Same mold and compound as the Swedish tire.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Altimax+Arctic

    get another set of wheels, and you can install them yourself, or drive them year round- they wear as well as any and are great in the wet

    We had Nokians on an A4 with the full compliment of studs, and over 65 the car would ride up on the studs and get a bit squirrely, so later sets had fewer studs. You probably won't need them, at least not often.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    I have been driving a CTS V-Sport (Rear Drive) year round since 2014 and have had no trouble in the sloppy winters around Detroit with drives up to see the wife's family in the Keweenaw (look it up). Love the snow tires- X Ice, and my tire shop stores the summers for me. Extra rims are the way to go.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    And to echo Todd- absolutely get four tires

    The Nokians and the Generals have very square profiles, and stiff sidewalls. They corner very well. The tires of various countries are engineered for conditions in those countries, just like the ski waxes of various Scandinavian countries. See what your neighbors are driving.

    Had belts migrate through the sidewalls on a Nokian once- very strange occurrence, and modern four wheel drive system, eg Quattro, are very fussy about tire size, so if you add a new tire to an old set the car will not like it one bit.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    I ended up getting Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2's. The Blizzaks were actually more expensive, partly because the R2's were discounted to make way for the new R3's. I had them put on in Great Barrington by Sewards who also sold me the tires. Switched out the tires and kept the OEM rims with their pressure sensors, and I drove the summer tires over to a friend's workshop in Kingston NY. Not exactly convenient storage, except if you figure in a chance to see the progress on his new (ancient actually, but being restored) Cimbali lever machine, get an espresso from his rescued 4 lever industrial machine and look at his race cars.

    The Nokians make the V60 feel like a race car. Unbelievable control even on dry pavement. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't send the summer tires to the grinder and buy something more betterer in the spring.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    The Nokians make the V60 feel like a race car. Unbelievable control even on dry pavement. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't send the summer tires to the grinder and buy something more betterer in the spring.
    Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS) and a one-day driver education event at a track are what you need.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Yeah, that is the consensus opinion: Pilot Super Sport rock, but also wear pretty quickly at speed.

    If your haven't studded those Nokians, they are great in the rain, and you don't have to swap out the tires by the deadline.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    If your winter tires are better in the dry than your summer tires at any temperature above 45 deg or so, you need better summer tires. The last time I benchmarked a Nokian 4-season/all-weather product they really didn't perform any differently in the snow than any of the other major players and they didn't offer any better dry performance than a normal snow tire.

    The Michelin Pilot Super Sports are massively over-rated. In most sizes the Continental ExtremeContact is going to offer equal to better performance at a lower price point. If they exist in sizes that fit your vehicle, try the Goodyear Supercar 3 or 3R. The OE Camaro fitments are baller tires.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    I had about 150K km more or less evenly split between MPSS and ExtremeContact on a RWD BMW. I only tracked the MPSS so I can only compare the two in street duty. Their overall performance is comparable but I think that MPSS corner better and give better feedback as to when the rear end is going to waggle. On my way home there is a hard turn leading up a 12 degree hill so I get to do low speed silly things quite often. MPSS are a more expensive but I got mine at Costco for only about 10% more than ExtremeContact. The two tires seemed to wear about the same but the Contis were a bit quieter and a somewhat more cushy. For gran touring I would choose the Contis but MPSS for getting every last bit of grip that my car has (not that I've really got there yet). Both tires are confidence-inspiring and will make you feel like a champ.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    I think the tires that came on the car were some kind of Michelin all-season. They were fine but not very grippy and definitely vague feeling in corners and kind of bouncy at the rated inflation pressure. The Nokians are the same size on paper but effectively have a lower profile rim-to-tread surface (i.e. the wheels look smaller diameter now.) I don't think I'd want anything any "thinner" around the rim because I do end up driving on dirt roads a bit. Probably one of those 2 out of 3 situations.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I think the tires that came on the car were some kind of Michelin all-season. They were fine but not very grippy and definitely vague feeling in corners and kind of bouncy at the rated inflation pressure. The Nokians are the same size on paper but effectively have a lower profile rim-to-tread surface (i.e. the wheels look smaller diameter now.) I don't think I'd want anything any "thinner" around the rim because I do end up driving on dirt roads a bit. Probably one of those 2 out of 3 situations.
    If the Michelins were an OE fitment they're going to be forced to trade off some grip (primarily wet and snow) for better rolling resistance. OEMs lean really hard on the tire suppliers to help hit their CAFE requirements. Regardless, All-season tires are not summer tires.

    Hopefully by "rated pressure" you mean vehicle placard pressure and not anything that's written on the sidewall of the tire itself.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by zachateseverything View Post
    If the Michelins were an OE fitment they're going to be forced to trade off some grip (primarily wet and snow) for better rolling resistance. OEMs lean really hard on the tire suppliers to help hit their CAFE requirements. Regardless, All-season tires are not summer tires.

    Hopefully by "rated pressure" you mean vehicle placard pressure and not anything that's written on the sidewall of the tire itself.
    Yep, placard. And measured cold. The first time I took the car in for its XXXXX mileage service, they over-inflated the tires by nearly 5 psi. Not sure why. However, I didn't discover it for a while after. The second service they did it again, but this time I checked right away. It doesn't help that the car sits in a garage for 2-3 weeks several times a year. I think tires tend to get a bit flat sided after prolonged sitting, especially in a cold underground garage.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    i'm a pirelli lifer.

    p-zeros on the bmw
    scorpions on the van
    sotozeros in the winter.

    bliss

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by summilux View Post
    Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS) and a one-day driver education event at a track are what you need.
    this.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Yep, placard. And measured cold. The first time I took the car in for its XXXXX mileage service, they over-inflated the tires by nearly 5 psi. Not sure why. However, I didn't discover it for a while after. The second service they did it again, but this time I checked right away. It doesn't help that the car sits in a garage for 2-3 weeks several times a year. I think tires tend to get a bit flat sided after prolonged sitting, especially in a cold underground garage.
    Their gauge might be way off. it happens.

    Flat-spots are a thing. They're actually worse if the car is stored in a hot environment. it's a big problem in the south west.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Out of curiosity how much does a wheel vs tire swap cost each time?
    Im sure its region dependent, but i'm considering getting an FWD sedan or hatchback and a set of winter wheels... seems like a good option vs a crossover with all seasons that my parents (who are all in on AWD but never get snow tires) are encouraging me to purchase.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by skouri1 View Post
    Out of curiosity how much does a wheel vs tire swap cost each time?
    Im sure its region dependent, but i'm considering getting an FWD sedan or hatchback and a set of winter wheels... seems like a good option vs a crossover with all seasons that my parents (who are all in on AWD but never get snow tires) are encouraging me to purchase.
    If you get a set of rims with the tires you can change them yourself. Alternatively, you can have a garage install the wheels when you go in for a service or something like that. They probably charge $50 or something like that. If you have the rims and tires it's more or less a tire rotation for a garage.

    In general, I wouldn't recommend just changing out the tires onto existing rims twice a year. I could be wrong, but I think that causes a bit of excess wear and tear on the tires but perhaps the tire experts here can address this. That said, that's what my mother does and it's worked for her for several years.
    Last edited by Saab2000; 12-21-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    If you get a set of rims with the tires you can change them yourself. Alternatively, you can have a garage install the wheels when you go in for a service or something like that. They probably charge $50 or something like that. If you have the rims and tires it's more or less a tire rotation for a garage.

    In general, I wouldn't recommend just changing out the tires onto existing rims twice a year. I could be wrong, but I think that causes a bit of excess wear and tear on the tires but perhaps the tire experts here can address this. That said, that's what my mother does and it's worked for her for several years.
    mounting and dismounting doesn't really put a ton of wear and tear on the tires (if they're using proper equipment), but it will put some wear and tear on your wallet. it's $20 a corner or so each time you do the swap, there isn't a guarantee that you won't be back in the shop to rebalance them, and you'll be paying that twice a year. conversely steel wheels will run you $50-$70 each and cheap alloys $75-$100. they'll basically pay for themselves in two years and don't take up anymore storage space.

    a lot of tire shops bill wheel swaps as tire rotations. at my company's stores that means it's free as long as it's goodyear-dunlop-kelly tires on all the wheel sets.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    Quote Originally Posted by skouri1 View Post
    Out of curiosity how much does a wheel vs tire swap cost each time?
    Im sure its region dependent, but i'm considering getting an FWD sedan or hatchback and a set of winter wheels... seems like a good option vs a crossover with all seasons that my parents (who are all in on AWD but never get snow tires) are encouraging me to purchase.
    You will never regret getting your winter tires mounted on their own steel rims. Plus the fashion these days is a low-profile tire, and you want to go down a size on your rims so you can get more sidewall height, for when you crash into a pothole hidden in a puddle.
     

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    Default Re: Snow Tires!!

    +1 For General over here in NH. I've been running General "Altimax Arctic" snow tires on my Crosstrek (and previously the older versions, the Ultimax's I think, on my Honda Civic). Only difference is when I finally retired the Civic with 290k on it, and purchased the Crosstrek, I went ahead and had the new set of Altimax Arctic's studded. Noise level isn't all that bad. There's a noted drop in highway miles per galon but my commute is about 150' by foot.

    I will say though for the Northeast, November/December and into January the past 5 or so years, winter kind of sputters into being winter with a lot (and I mean a lot) of mixed rain-icy-snow. Temps have been swinging like crazy up here. It's been some times in the 60's or 70's and swing into the low 20's overnight. It was just white knuckle driving the past few Holiday's. Sweaty palms and all. Those studs are such peace of mind. I can't go any faster than I'd typically drive in said conditions, but you have so much more control of the car, especially in turns or in conditions when you just don't know what it's actually like on the road due to light conditions.

    AWD, 4 wheeled drive, etc. if you're in snowy conditions, snow tires make a huge difference. I'm a believer.

    For the record, I just have my mechanic swap tires onto the stock rims. No extra set of steel rims. I'd have to ask around to a few friends who do have snow tires on steel rims to see if they have seen any significant savings.
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