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Thread: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    AS LONG AS you have the legal right to own a weapon? Sure. The people that are legally allowed to own firearms are usually the least likely to use them.

    Let's put this in another perspective: there are what 310 million firearms in the US. 310 MILLION! The numbers break down to appx 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns. That's appx 1 firearm per person in the us. That there are 13000 firearm related deaths in the US is a piss-poor number. BUT... since 62% of firearm deaths are suicides That leaves appx 38% of deaths are homicides or appx 5000 deaths annually. 5000 people per year are killed by firearms that someone else is shooting.

    These firearm statistics reflects not just the availability of firearms, but a willingness to use them. That willingness to use them is part of the problem.

    Having said that, being killed by someone firing a firearm isn't even in the top 10 things that kill the most people in the US every year. Link

    ...but... we need to do SOMETHING! I'd agree. What is that something that is effective, doesn't trample on people's rights or Rights, and actually addresses the issues rather than is just a knee jerk reaction?

    M



    Read me
    That 13k number does not include suicide. There were over 22k firearm suicides in the US in 2016.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    First off, that "article" is an editorial from someone about their gun experience. It's not a data point about the place of guns in society. It's an anecdote. When I have more time tomorrow I'll find some anecdotes about people who lost friends, children, parents, etc. because of a gun that was bought for protection. Interestingly, though, the author writes:

    Thus the overwhelming support for background checks, the insistence from gun-rights supporters that the government enforce existing laws and lock up violent offenders, and the openness to solutions—like so-called “gun violence restraining orders” that specifically target troubled individuals for intervention.
    Part of the problem with this debate is this is exactly the type of regulation that many of us who are debating for gun control are looking for. And apparently your example anecdote guy does too. But, back to the topic of this thread, the gun lobby is making it so even those approaches aren't up for discussion.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    AS LONG AS you have the legal right to own a weapon? Sure. The people that are legally allowed to own firearms are usually the least likely to use them.

    Let's put this in another perspective: there are what 310 million firearms in the US. 310 MILLION! The numbers break down to appx 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns. That's appx 1 firearm per person in the us. That there are 13000 firearm related deaths in the US is a piss-poor number. BUT... since 62% of firearm deaths are suicides That leaves appx 38% of deaths are homicides or appx 5000 deaths annually. 5000 people per year are killed by firearms that someone else is shooting.

    These firearm statistics reflects not just the availability of firearms, but a willingness to use them. That willingness to use them is part of the problem.

    Having said that, being killed by someone firing a firearm isn't even in the top 10 things that kill the most people in the US every year. Link

    ...but... we need to do SOMETHING! I'd agree. What is that something that is effective, doesn't trample on people's rights or Rights, and actually addresses the issues rather than is just a knee jerk reaction?

    M



    Read me
    Ok, so then it's cool for RPGs in the hands of civilians because we all have the legal right to firearms. There are already restrictions, there have been stricter restrictions. As murphy pointed out, gun restrictions aren't unconstitutional.

    And, as C.Dyer points out, your stats are wrong. Also, gun data, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, is inaccurate because the NRA made it so it isn't funded by the government, so we don't really know all the data we should. And, to dismiss suicide from your perception of the gun problem is an insulting way to continue your reductive presentation of the problem. When I say we have too many guns that get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them, and when people say there is a public health crisis related to the prevalence of firearms, that includes suicide. People who attempt suicide with guns succeed at a significantly higher rate than those who try other methods. And those who try and fail rarely try a second time. So the gun is an important factor and suicide should be part of the debate on the role guns play in our society.

    And as I've said earlier, this is a thread about guns and the NRA, and the boycotting of businesses that support them. For the purposes of this discussion the fact that there are other causes of death with much higher frequency is of no consequence. If you want to discuss heart disease, start that thread.

    Lastly, did you even read this article? It makes a case for the disturbing frequency of gun deaths and gun violence in the US and how we are the most heavily armed country in the world. It underscores the fact that AR/AK rifles are not the only rifles in this category available, but the only ones being tracked, so the data is skewed. The article's point is that AR rifles are just a part of the real gun problem and that there's a bigger issue with how easy guns are to obtain for people who shouldn't have them. The only person that thinks I'm arguing for nothing more than a ban of your scary black rifle is you. So, if it helps us move forward, I'll concede that ARs aren't the only guns we have a problem with in this country. The solution is going to be a combination of factors because it's complicated and dynamic. Just like other complex issues we need to solve, it will be a combination of regulation, education, treatment, and many more things.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Strongin View Post
    Ok, so then it's cool for RPGs in the hands of civilians because we all have the legal right to firearms. There are already restrictions, there have been stricter restrictions. As murphy pointed out, gun restrictions aren't unconstitutional.
    The truly hardcore gun people will argue that any kind of regulation is unconstitutional. Hence the 'shall not be infringed.' What is more infringing than a ban?

    And, as C.Dyer points out, your stats are wrong. Also, gun data, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, is inaccurate because the NRA made it so it isn't funded by the government, so we don't really know all the data we should. And, to dismiss suicide from your perception of the gun problem is an insulting way to continue your reductive presentation of the problem. When I say we have too many guns that get in the hands of people that shouldn't have them, and when people say there is a public health crisis related to the prevalence of firearms, that includes suicide. People who attempt suicide with guns succeed at a significantly higher rate than those who try other methods. And those who try and fail rarely try a second time. So the gun is an important factor and suicide should be part of the debate on the role guns play in our society
    People that are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide whether they use a firearm or not so that's a separate discussion than someone shooting another person.

    Homicides are another story. Even if they're underreported, rifles are a small # of weapons used in shootings. AR-style rifles are used in even fewer shootings. So explain to me again why the AR is the target other than incorrect assumptions.

    This is older, but I'd bet that it's still pretty accurate
    Handguns are most often the type
    of firearm used in crime
    According to the Victim Survey
    (NCVS), 25% of the victims of rape
    and sexual assault, robbery, and
    aggravated assault in 1993 faced an
    offender armed with a handgun. Of all
    firearm-related crime reported to the
    survey, 86% involved handguns.
    The FBI's Supplemental Homicide
    Reports show that 57% of all murders
    in 1993 were committed with hand-
    guns, 3% with rifles, 5% with shotguns,
    and 5% with firearms where the type
    was unknown.
    The 1991 Survey of State Prison In-
    mates found that violent inmates who
    used a weapon were more likely to use
    a handgun than any other weapon;
    24% of all violent inmates reported that
    they used a handgun. Of all inmates,
    13% reported carrying a handgun
    when they committed the offense
    for which they were serving time.
    What types of guns do criminals
    prefer?
    Research by Wright and Rossi in the
    1980's found that most criminals prefer
    guns that are easily concealable, large
    caliber, and well made. Their studies
    also found that the handguns used by
    the felons interviewed were similar to
    the handguns available to the general
    public, except that the criminals pre-
    ferred larger caliber guns.
    And as I've said earlier, this is a thread about guns and the NRA, and the boycotting of businesses that support them. For the purposes of this discussion the fact that there are other causes of death with much higher frequency is of no consequence. If you want to discuss heart disease, start that thread.
    ...and I've said that I'm OK with companies not selling AR-style rifles if that's what they choose to do. I prefer that to more ineffective laws. I don't agree that they refuse to sell to those under 21, Until that's a law. That brings up another kettle of fish and a completely different discussion about voting, diying for your country, and the hypocrisy about drinking. ...but like I said, that's another discussion.

    Lastly, did you even read this article? It makes a case for the disturbing frequency of gun deaths and gun violence in the US and how we are the most heavily armed country in the world. It underscores the fact that AR/AK rifles are not the only rifles in this category available, but the only ones being tracked, so the data is skewed. The article's point is that AR rifles are just a part of the real gun problem and that there's a bigger issue with how easy guns are to obtain for people who shouldn't have them. The only person that thinks I'm arguing for nothing more than a ban of your scary black rifle is you. So, if it helps us move forward, I'll concede that ARs aren't the only guns we have a problem with in this country. The solution is going to be a combination of factors because it's complicated and dynamic. Just like other complex issues we need to solve, it will be a combination of regulation, education, treatment, and many more things.
    You're not going to get an argument for me that there are too many holes in the system. You'll find that most law-abiding gun owners are going to say the same thing. Let's fix the NICS system that isn't being used fully. That alone will keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

    I'll disagree that it's going to take regulation of AR-style rifles because statistically speaking they're used in a very small minority of gun violence. So if it isn't because AR-style rifles are black and scary looking, why concentrate on them?. There are weapons out there like 12ga shotguns that send more lead downrange per shot than an AR-style rifle. Easier to use: point and pull the trigger. Not much aiming requred. No one's talking about a ban on 9mm double-stack pistols despite the fact that pistols that are used in more gun-related crimes than any of the above.

    Let's not talk about any of that because an AR-style rifle is an easy target. Completely the wrong target, but an easy target.

    The other thing that a 'gun ban' does is punish the innocent. Law-abiding gun owners are just that, Criminals don't give a rat's behind if it's legal or not. They're criminals after all! They've already set themselves apart from 'polite society' by their actions.

    So let's talk about the causes of violence in general and gun violence in specific so we can figure out how to move forward together. Let's figure out a way to start to cure society so we don't need any more knee jerk/feel good ineffective laws.

    M
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    People that are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide whether they use a firearm or not so that's a separate discussion than someone shooting another person.
    This is totally incorrect and morally bankrupt. Guns are an exceedingly effective tool with which to end one's life. Suicide is often a highly impulsive act, and access to a highly lethal means of self-harm undoubtedly leads to a larger number of deaths. Ideally, our health care systems, our communities and our families would be getting these people the help they need before they are driven to desperate acts. But to contend that even if a similar number of people still attempted suicide by another means, that the outcomes would be the same is just insane. I don't want anyone trying to kill themselves. But let's face it--a failed overdose of sleeping pills is an opportunity to help someone get better. A failed self-inflicted GSW is not something we often have the opportunity to deal with. Seriously, suicide by poisoning has a single digit percentage completion rate, firearms have north of 85% completion. I’ve got receipts all fucking day long on this. It’s not even a question by anyone who’s being remotely honest.

    I’ll probably get scolded by someone for saying this, but IDGAF. Whenever I see someone advancing the “they’d just be dead by another means” narrative about folks who commit suicide by firearm, I know one of two things; you either believe it, in which case you’re a fucking idiot; or you’re a liar arguing in bad faith. Which is it for you?
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post

    People that are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide whether they use a firearm or not so that's a separate discussion than someone shooting another person.
    "Read me"
    Private Guns, Public Health
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    For the record. I've rec'd a complaint about swearing out loud here. For the record I might have started that trend myself and apologize for it. Impassioned speech sometimes gets the better of me. We do claim to be a "family friendly" or at least "not get fired for reading Vsalon at work" kind of place. My opinion is that is that a little swearing is fine, nobody will put a eye out doing such.

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    The truly hardcore gun people will argue that any kind of regulation is unconstitutional. Hence the 'shall not be infringed.' What is more infringing than a ban?

    People that are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide whether they use a firearm or not so that's a separate discussion than someone shooting another person.

    Homicides are another story. Even if they're underreported, rifles are a small # of weapons used in shootings. AR-style rifles are used in even fewer shootings. So explain to me again why the AR is the target other than incorrect assumptions.

    This is older, but I'd bet that it's still pretty accurate


    ...and I've said that I'm OK with companies not selling AR-style rifles if that's what they choose to do. I prefer that to more ineffective laws. I don't agree that they refuse to sell to those under 21, Until that's a law. That brings up another kettle of fish and a completely different discussion about voting, diying for your country, and the hypocrisy about drinking. ...but like I said, that's another discussion.


    You're not going to get an argument for me that there are too many holes in the system. You'll find that most law-abiding gun owners are going to say the same thing. Let's fix the NICS system that isn't being used fully. That alone will keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

    I'll disagree that it's going to take regulation of AR-style rifles because statistically speaking they're used in a very small minority of gun violence. So if it isn't because AR-style rifles are black and scary looking, why concentrate on them?. There are weapons out there like 12ga shotguns that send more lead downrange per shot than an AR-style rifle. Easier to use: point and pull the trigger. Not much aiming requred. No one's talking about a ban on 9mm double-stack pistols despite the fact that pistols that are used in more gun-related crimes than any of the above.

    Let's not talk about any of that because an AR-style rifle is an easy target. Completely the wrong target, but an easy target.

    The other thing that a 'gun ban' does is punish the innocent. Law-abiding gun owners are just that, Criminals don't give a rat's behind if it's legal or not. They're criminals after all! They've already set themselves apart from 'polite society' by their actions.

    So let's talk about the causes of violence in general and gun violence in specific so we can figure out how to move forward together. Let's figure out a way to start to cure society so we don't need any more knee jerk/feel good ineffective laws.

    M
    So I write keep writing posts about the broader issue of the preponderance and easy availability of guns (all guns, not just AR) leading to a significantly higher rate of injury and death in this country than our peers, and that the solution is a combination of many things (not focused on bans), and you keep latching on to this argument about banning AR "style" rifles being ineffective. You're either not reading what I'm writing or you're being intellectually dishonest to win points. So now we're going around in circles and debating the debate rather than debating the issue.

    The data, that we have at least, is pretty clear that firearms in general make up the overwhelming majority of murder weapons and suicide tools. It's clear they have a lower survivability rating than other weapons. Data is clear that the US is not unique in its general crime rates or incidence of mental health problems. Data is clear that we have a staggeringly disproportionate stockpile of weapons in the hands of citizens and an equivalently high rate of gun violence compared with other countries. We can, and should, talk about causes of violence in general, but the idea that guns aren't a part of the problem is disingenuous.

    As for your comments on suicide, as others have mentioned, you're wrong. Guns make it effective the way nothing else does. It's a fleeting feeling that often never returns or is treatable, but there's almost never a second chance when a gun is involved. Those guns are often already owned by people in the household other than the person attempting suicide. It's a tool of convenience and a real part of the problem. It would be great if you could move on from this point so we can stop bringing it up in this thread. For those who have had brushes with it through our lives, myself included, it's uncomfortable, unsettling, and unnecessary to minimize as something that "they're going to do whether or not they have a firearm." It's untrue.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    People that are going to commit suicide are going to commit suicide whether they use a firearm or not so that's a separate discussion than someone shooting another person.
    I no longer have a dog in this fight but your first assertion is absolutely not true. And it's still gun violence, so why should it be a separate discussion?
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    That's true. There is a good amount of research that many people who have suicidal intent and get intervention are often grateful for that intervention, and do not attempt in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by monadnocky View Post
    I no longer have a dog in this fight but your first assertion is absolutely not true. And it's still gun violence, so why should it be a separate discussion?
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by dasein View Post
    That's true. There is a good amount of research that many people who have suicidal intent and get intervention are often grateful for that intervention, and do not attempt in the future.
    Yes. It's an impulsivity thing, usually involving drugs or alcohol. The results of many intensive phenomenological analytic studies have strongly suggested that there would have been no attempt without such a quick and deadly means. It's a public health problem for sure.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    This is a bunch of random/rambling thoughts:

    Back to concealed carry - GA is another state that requires zero training for a CCP. Fill out a form, pay a fee, and a few weeks later the permit shows up (assuming you're not a felon). SC (where I lived before) did require some basic training, but like mentioned earlier it wasn't about using the gun for defense or in any sort of tactical way, it was about how to safely handle it, not shoot yourself, and your ability to hit a target from a short distance away. A former co-worker actually did shoot himself in the foot while doing the training LOL. He caught sooooooo much crap for it at work. "well we could re-do this pipe stress run, but we'd really be shooting ourselves in the foot as far as the schedule is concerned."

    Open carry is getting more popular here too, I see it once a month or so, maybe once every other month. I'm 33, and I don't remember ever seeing anyone openly carrying a pistol on their hip when I was a kid. I do remember the days of gun racks in the back of pickups, which you certainly can't do now without someone busting your window and taking them. I also remember looking through some of my HS teachers old year books and seeing senior photos where kids brought their hunting rifle in for the picture. Society has changed a lot, and not for the better in every way.

    For the record, I think open carry is a dumb idea. Most of my coworkers (at every job I've ever had) are big into hunting and firearms, and they're sorta split on the issue, I'd say 70% think it's a bad idea. The people I see openly carrying, to me, just look afraid. Afraid to leave their house, trying to show how tough they are.

    In a Facebook comment thread a few weeks ago (before the Parkland shooting) I saw several people commenting on how they have pistols hidden in several rooms of their house so they can get to them quickly no matter what room they're in if someone breaks in. To me, I read that and just think "damn dude, if you're that scared, you need to move!"

    In general, and maybe it's because I'm older and didn't pick up on it as a kid, but it seems like people are more afraid now than they've ever been, even though the violent crime rate has been dropping. It doesn't always feel that way though, here in Macon someone gets shot at least once a week. Generally it's folks in the projects shooting each other over petty BS, not home invasions. Sunday night someone got in a fight at a club and pulled a gun and someone got shot (who is clubbing at 1am on Monday morning????). A grandmother riding around with her son and grandkids was shot in the neck yesterday.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment and lawful citizens owning firearms (I'm planning to buy a new handgun pretty soon), but it does seem like there's just too damn many out there, and they're too easy to get.

    The Cabela's in Augusta was broken into and had a bunch of guns stolen - TWICE. That is a big f'in problem - it shouldn't be that easy, and Cabelas should be held accountable and fined a CRAZY amount of money - the fine should be so steep that it would cost *way* less to properly secure the guns overnight than pay the fine if they get stolen. This wasn't sophisticated robbery, it was just a smash and grab. Break the front glass doors, smash the glass gun cabinets, grab, run away. They arrest two people in connection to that, but still, Cabela's (and anyone else selling firearms) shouldn't make it so easy to steal them.

    Also - this video I'll just leave it right here.
    Dustin Gaddis
    www.MiddleGaEpic.com
    Why do people feel the need to list all of their bikes in their signature?

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    That movie is on Amazon Prime. No. I didn't watch it.

    On a related note to the whole gun control thing: Let's say we figure out what cars are used by drunk drivers and ban those. that should end the drunk driving pproblem ...but that's not even the problem! Using the 'assault weapon' analogy: we know the scary-looking fast cars are used in a small proportion of drunk driving incidents, so let's ban those. They're black. They're scary. ...and they're fast! Must be the most effective thing we can do to curb drunk driving.

    M
    That kind of thing happened here in Bermuda back in the 1980s. We have very strict regulations on what kind of cars can be imported into Bermuda due to our small roads and low speeds. There was a car importer that had access to a car model that was a 'turbo'. The authorities were skeptical but allowed two to be imported to be evaluated. No more were allowed since the cars were deemed too powerful for the island. They met all the prevailing regs at the time - their engines were below the limit for size and power but the ban basically boiled down to the fact that they had the word 'turbo' written on them and because they looked too fast!
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    That movie is on Amazon Prime. No. I didn't watch it.

    On a related note to the whole gun control thing: Let's say we figure out what cars are used by drunk drivers and ban those. that should end the drunk driving pproblem ...but that's not even the problem! Using the 'assault weapon' analogy: we know the scary-looking fast cars are used in a small proportion of drunk driving incidents, so let's ban those. They're black. They're scary. ...and they're fast! Must be the most effective thing we can do to curb drunk driving.

    M
    This is nonsensical to the point of being (intentionally?) farcical.

    The purpose of a weapon that fires high-velocity rounds is to maim or (ideally) kill. Hard stop.

    They might also be coincidentally fun to shoot and play with (to some), but it's impossible to argue they have another design intent.

    Please, show me the example of a car designed to do as much human damage as possible. Mad Max doesn't count. Has to be something an 18-year-old civilian can readily buy.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummee View Post
    Why do you think that's so strange? People were buying the most technologically advance weapon they could afford then too.

    Revolvers came after single shot pistols. Semi-auto pistols came after revolvers. The same way that single shot smooth bores gave way to rifles which gave way to semi-autos.

    M
    But that's the point, isn't it? Technology changed, and the Constitution (or at least its modern interpretation) must change with it. It wasn't a matter of public safety when flintlock rifles were the state-of-the-art.

    It's beyond bizarre to posit that firearm evolution shouldn't be considered here.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    I'm also pretty sure that road deaths would decrease if no cars could be sold that go faster than the national speed limit. But that's another discussion.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Strongin View Post
    So I write keep writing posts about the broader issue of the preponderance and easy availability of guns (all guns, not just AR) leading to a significantly higher rate of injury and death in this country than our peers, and that the solution is a combination of many things (not focused on bans), and you keep latching on to this argument about banning AR "style" rifles being ineffective. You're either not reading what I'm writing or you're being intellectually dishonest to win points. So now we're going around in circles and debating the debate rather than debating the issue.
    It doesn't matter what you post in the way of studies, data, evidence... it will all be biased/fake news/wrong to him, because he's emotionally invested in his version of the truth, based on his gut instincts. Any "evidence" from the NRA, gun industry, or on-the-take politicians will be lauded as gospel, and confirmation of his "feelings" on this, which he'll trust until the end.

    And, in the end, it won't matter. Change is coming because enough people will demand it.
     

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    This is a bunch of random/rambling thoughts:

    Back to concealed carry - GA is another state that requires zero training for a CCP. Fill out a form, pay a fee, and a few weeks later the permit shows up (assuming you're not a felon). SC (where I lived before) did require some basic training, but like mentioned earlier it wasn't about using the gun for defense or in any sort of tactical way, it was about how to safely handle it, not shoot yourself, and your ability to hit a target from a short distance away. A former co-worker actually did shoot himself in the foot while doing the training LOL. He caught sooooooo much crap for it at work. "well we could re-do this pipe stress run, but we'd really be shooting ourselves in the foot as far as the schedule is concerned."

    Open carry is getting more popular here too, I see it once a month or so, maybe once every other month. I'm 33, and I don't remember ever seeing anyone openly carrying a pistol on their hip when I was a kid. I do remember the days of gun racks in the back of pickups, which you certainly can't do now without someone busting your window and taking them. I also remember looking through some of my HS teachers old year books and seeing senior photos where kids brought their hunting rifle in for the picture. Society has changed a lot, and not for the better in every way.

    For the record, I think open carry is a dumb idea. Most of my coworkers (at every job I've ever had) are big into hunting and firearms, and they're sorta split on the issue, I'd say 70% think it's a bad idea. The people I see openly carrying, to me, just look afraid. Afraid to leave their house, trying to show how tough they are.

    In a Facebook comment thread a few weeks ago (before the Parkland shooting) I saw several people commenting on how they have pistols hidden in several rooms of their house so they can get to them quickly no matter what room they're in if someone breaks in. To me, I read that and just think "damn dude, if you're that scared, you need to move!"

    In general, and maybe it's because I'm older and didn't pick up on it as a kid, but it seems like people are more afraid now than they've ever been, even though the violent crime rate has been dropping. It doesn't always feel that way though, here in Macon someone gets shot at least once a week. Generally it's folks in the projects shooting each other over petty BS, not home invasions. Sunday night someone got in a fight at a club and pulled a gun and someone got shot (who is clubbing at 1am on Monday morning????). A grandmother riding around with her son and grandkids was shot in the neck yesterday.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment and lawful citizens owning firearms (I'm planning to buy a new handgun pretty soon), but it does seem like there's just too damn many out there, and they're too easy to get.

    The Cabela's in Augusta was broken into and had a bunch of guns stolen - TWICE. That is a big f'in problem - it shouldn't be that easy, and Cabelas should be held accountable and fined a CRAZY amount of money - the fine should be so steep that it would cost *way* less to properly secure the guns overnight than pay the fine if they get stolen. This wasn't sophisticated robbery, it was just a smash and grab. Break the front glass doors, smash the glass gun cabinets, grab, run away. They arrest two people in connection to that, but still, Cabela's (and anyone else selling firearms) shouldn't make it so easy to steal them.

    Also - this video I'll just leave it right here.
    Concealed Carry here in Texas involves a background check, mandatory classroom training, and range time. And you have to be 21. The classroom training is about the times you can legally use your concealed weapon and the potential repercussions of using your gun, even if you are correct in doing so. The bottom line on that is you're likely to be arrested even if you're released a few hours later. With concealed carry, if your weapon is visible, you're breaking the law. Texas passed open carry a few years ago, partially to prevent the issues with a visible weapon, to allow people to carry in the hot summers when wearing less layers of clothes, and to allow some paranoid people to walk around with a gun on their hip. I live in the "God-fearing-buckle of the bible belt-rural NE Texas-I've got a gun in my truck", part of the country. I've only seen two people open carry, out in the open big holster on their hip guys. I've caught glimpses of concealed weapons. You have to have a concealed carry license to open carry. I've never seen anyone pull their concealed weapon even though this smallish town has a few shootings a week, almost exclusively drug or gang related.

    The thing about concealed carry, it's not a license to be a law enforcement officer. If you pull your gun to stop a robbery in the Wal-Mart parking lot, you'd likely be in the wrong. If you're running towards danger to use your concealed carry weapon, you're likely in the wrong. I have one pistol that would work well for concealed carry, a single stack S&W 40 cal, but I just haven't felt the need to carry.
    Weight Doper

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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    But that's the point, isn't it? Technology changed, and the Constitution (or at least its modern interpretation) must change with it. It wasn't a matter of public safety when flintlock rifles were the state-of-the-art.

    It's beyond bizarre to posit that firearm evolution shouldn't be considered here.
    I agree. And certain weapons are already off-limits to civilians. RPGs, hand grenades, full automatic, etc. The question is where to draw the line. If ARs are banned, then should everything 'more lethal' also be banned? And how do you define 'more lethal' - kinetic energy of the round? Magazine capacity? Some combination of the two? AR's don't shoot the hardest hitting rounds available. Muzzle energy - Wikipedia
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    Default Re: REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

    The measure I would like to see passed: no civilian ownership of a weapon that can fire more than five rounds before it must be reloaded.

    When I was an active gun owner, thirty or more years ago, long guns were largely limited to this amount. For bird hunting semi-automatics were further limited by a plug insert to three shots. No one I knew used a semi-automatic rifle for hunting.

    I have a dog in this fight: my father, suffering from depression and joblessness, attempted suicide with pills, was saved by the unanticipated arrival of my brother. The second time he used a gun, successfully. I don't know that legislation would have prevented this, but that's a separate issue than allowing that small percentage of the population for whom the Constitution begins and ends at the Second Amendment hold their right to bear arms over the heads of the rest of us who want to enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    I don't claim any special knowledge because of this. I'll bet a good number of you out there know someone whose life is similarly affected.

    The NRA is a terrorist organization. Check out the website, watch the videos. They are a hate group. They were not when I was a member back in 1968.

    Five shots instead of fifteen. It would be a step in the direction of more perfect Union.
     

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