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Thread: Reading about another death on Everest.

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    Default Reading about another death on Everest.

    Name another sport in which the "competitors" routinely walk by the dead and dying...

    There are a bunch of bodies up there, with no plan to retrieve them.

    The mountaineering community should come together and clean that place up.

    Not to mention the dump at Basecamp.


    How is this sustainable:


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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    That is one disturbing and disgusting comment on humanity.





    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    Name another sport in which the "competitors" routinely walk by the dead and dying...

    There are a bunch of bodies up there, with no plan to retrieve them.

    The mountaineering community should come together and clean that place up.

    Not to mention the dump at Basecamp.


    How is this sustainable:


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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    The mountaineering community should come together and clean that place up.
    There have been plans to do that but it isn't as easy as it sounds. Climbing there is a dangerous things already, trying to carry frozen corpses back to the last camp would be akin to suicide. Most deaths occur during the descent.

    Way too many people want to figure in the list of those who climbed there that's for sure and the narrow opportunities with decent weather makes them all attempt at the same time.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    I've seen subways at rush hour way less crowded.

    And the commentary on humanity regards a very small subsection. The only person I know who did this is bipolar, got straight eight hundreds on his SAT's, went to MIT, was told he couldn't be a doctor, and now works in Gallup, NM as an addiction specialist treating the community across the street. He did not summit because of HAPE.
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    The authorities in charge of that portion of the world should issue less permits. But they're milking it, won't stop that easy.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    The authorities in charge of that portion of the world should issue less permits. But they're milking it, won't stop that easy.
    a simple answer is to charge more until the result is the right quantity of people and money. the simple problem, the selection process focuses around one criteria which is subject to substantial criticism. that said, its already expensive so has that already happened?
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    a simple answer is to charge more until the result is the right quantity of people and money. the simple problem, the selection process focuses around one criteria which is subject to substantial criticism. that said, its already expensive so has that already happened?
    is there a selection process, a minimum standard of sorts?

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    is there a selection process, a minimum standard of sorts?
    Great question - charging more could reduce numbers and increase deaths. The amount of money a person has probably doesn't correlate well with ability to climb Everest.
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by KonaSS View Post
    Great question - charging more could reduce numbers and increase deaths. The amount of money a person has probably doesn't correlate well with ability to climb Everest.
    If there isn't, it's akin (according to my opinion) of letting anyone with a bicycle get out on the Cross Bronx Expressway and go all Danny MacAskill on the traffic flow.

    'Would love to know how permits are metered out for climbing Everest and its ilk.

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    is there a selection process, a minimum standard of sorts?
    It's somewhat complex and most people go through a tour company...need a mountaineering license and a permit...figure about $70K all in all.

    Permit to Climb Mount Everest: What Permits & How to Get the Permit
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwsaunders View Post
    It's somewhat complex and most people go through a tour company...need a mountaineering license and a permit...figure about $70K all in all.

    Permit to Climb Mount Everest: What Permits & How to Get the Permit


    This explains a lot: How to Get a Mountaineering License?

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    How is this different from Grand Fondo (fill in the blank...NY, NJ)?
    A lot of those people don't belong there but pay an enormous amount to guiding services. IMHO there should be some sort of 'portfolio review' of one's accomplishments before you're allowed in the region. On the other hand, some of those corpses belong to the most accomplished people in the sport who made a one-time bad decision, slipped and fell or got slammed by a storm.

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Fundamentally, what's to stop any human from showing up at the base of any mountain and attempting to climb it? Seems like a basic thing. I assume everyone who attempts to climb any of these 8000 meter mountains knows the risks and knows it might kill them. People can begin to show signs of hypoxia below 10,000 feet/3000 meters. Attempting to climb the North Face of the Eiger is extremely hazardous but there's really nothing but common sense and a long-evolved sense of self preservation stopping anyone from showing up and starting up the climb.

    It does seem to represent extreme hubris for anyone to proclaim they have summited Everest without acknowledging the Sherpas and other guides who make it possible.

    No doubt, the fields of trash at the base camps is disgraceful.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    For as long as I've followed these stories, THIS:

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post

    It does seem to represent extreme hubris for anyone to proclaim they have summited Everest without acknowledging the Sherpas and other guides who make it possible.

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    750 climbers from Nepal side on South Col. $11,000 per permit = $8,250,000 for Gov for issuing permits. About 150 permits from the Tibet side.

    Now add porter fees for some of the sherpas, more fees for sherpas to fix ropes. (this really needs to be run like a toll road by the sherpas as people try to free ride. Let the locals make more money)

    But this is only part of the problem. Add all the trekking companies hiking to basecamp, add in some insurance scams for helicopter rescues... it is just a tiny microcosm of the third world being abused by developed world tourists. I think they should sell as many permits as the market will bare and look for more ways to scam the dummies...

    The Everest Brawl: A Sherpa's Tale | Outside Online

    The reality is there are many hard routes up the mountain if someone wants to try for the Piolet d'Or.
    There have only been 265 summits not via the South Col or North Col.
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    750 climbers from Nepal side on South Col. $11,000 per permit = $8,250,000 for Gov for issuing permits. About 150 permits from the Tibet side.

    Now add porter fees for some of the sherpas, more fees for sherpas to fix ropes. (this really needs to be run like a toll road by the sherpas as people try to free ride)

    But this is only part of the problem. Add all the trekking companies tripping to basecamp, add in some insurance scams for helicopter rescues... it is just a tiny microcosm of the third world being abused by developed world tourists. I think they should sell as many permits as the market will bare and look for more ways to scam the dummies...

    That's how we felt back in the 1970s when the Mashantucket Tribe was beginning its forward motion to transform local bingo games into what would become Foxwoods Casino. Sticking the sharp end in the white man's back. Get some.

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    That's how we felt back in the 1970s when the Mashantucket Tribe was beginning its forward motion to transform local bingo games into what would become Foxwoods Casino. Sticking the sharp end in the white man's back. Get some.
    see Lim Goh Tong and Genting Group for details. (Generally there is a developed market business man, using the locals as a front for sticking the sharp end of the stick into someone's back to make a buck.)
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    It's dangerous. If you aren't disciplined or trained and adequately supplied even more dangerous.

    I believe this story earned the NY Times a Pulitzer

    Deliverance From 27, Feet - The New York Times

    -Mike G
     

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    No doubt, the fields of trash at the base camps is disgraceful.
    Having read the permitting process, it occurs to me that the authorities should be directly responsible for behavior at Base Camp(s) and on the mountain.

    Carry In / Carry Out, no exceptions.

    Guides and other operators should be required to incorporate waste removal with their services, and a percentage of fees should be dedicated to cleaning up the existing mess. Call it a tax, whatever. Given the total cash outlays associated with tourist visits to Base Camp, never mind professional expeditions to the summit, another 2-3% for cleanup should be no problem.

    As for the dead on the hill... It occurs to me that one of the main reasons that they stay there is because that's what the climbers explicitly wanted. They almost certainly communicate their wishes to friends and family before the climb, and I suspect that they rationalize the choice in predictable ways: "I don't want anyone to take a personal risk on my behalf (once I'm gone)" and "I will be happy to be preserved and immortalized for eternity in this place". In this case, we see the debris of pure egoism.

    The entire decision should be taken out of the individual's control. The gov't should require every expedition to maintain the necessary resources (funds, insurance, whatever) to mount a recovery operation when conditions permit, but within x years of a given event. The dead may be interred and memorialized at Base Camp - also for a fee.

    This requirement might induce at least a few climbers to recalculate their motives and preparations...

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    Default Re: Reading about another death on Everest.

    I bet that group is just ecstatic.
    Looks like as much fun as mall shopping on Black Friday ten years ago.
    This is a contest to prove who belongs in the really stupid club.
     

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