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Thread: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

  1. #741
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    What's with the cars running protestors over?

    On one side of the spectrum you have people protesting about their freedoms in the face of beaches being closed due to the virus (beach lives matter - WTF?) and yet people who protest (freedom of speech et al) get mowed down by cars. It's all a bit backwards. I hope the driver and their passengers get charged.
     

  2. #742
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

     

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    Two examples contrary to this sentiment...the cops walking down the street firing paint bags at people on their porch. The Buffalo cops who shoved an elderly guy to the ground and caused a skull fracture. The cops who regularly use chemical weapons banned by international convention from the battlefield to "disperse" protestors.

    If the metric for "restraint" is they didn't set up the .50 call machine gun and just start mowing everyone down, it's time to recalibrate one's concept of "restraint."

    The only thugs I've seen in the streets the last two months are the cops. Yanno, the lavishly equipped, thoroughly trained, decadently funded supposed keepers of the peace. Every police force looks like they could have rolled into Fallujah when the Marines there were knee deep in the shit, and why?
    A lot of these cops are nasty, angry bullies who would mow down protesters exactly as you describe if they could get away with it. So in that sense, they have shown restraint; they just haven't shown the restraint that normal people would expect.
     

  4. #744
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by mjbabcock View Post
    Step back and take a look at the whole forest. Look at the rates POC own businesses as opposed to white folk. Look at healthcare outcomes (including covid), look at life expectancy, education rates, family wealth, unemployment rates...zoom out.

    There is a noticeable attempt to reframe this unrest as simply harming those already at the margins instead of looking at state violence against Black people and their communities. Reframing this unrest lets people (you included) disregard how we (you included) perpetuate racist systems and racialized outcomes.

    “Beep beep, Richie, this is New York City
    The X on the map where the pain keep hitting
    Just us ducks here sitting
    Where murderous chokehold cops still earnin’ a livin’
    Funny how some say money don’t matter
    That’s rich now, isn’t it, get it? Comedy
    Try to sell a pack a smokes to get food
    Get killed and it’s not an anamoly
    But hey, it’s just money”
    Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

    That a large percentage of white folks can't seem to grok what 400 years (up to the present) of beyond despicable acts against POC have done, and why the outrage is being demonstrated in the streets (mildly, compared to what I'd expect from such a history), is astonishing. And tell me where the "All Lives Matter" movement has been for those 400 years? Take your blinders off.

    And your other comments are right on the money. Bullseye.
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by chasea View Post
    And to the next person that tells me they hope I never need a cop-

    I'll never rely on a cop again if you never rely on the working poor. Let's see who's life is easier.
    Is there anything about this country that you do like?

    You're one angry dude.
     

  6. #746
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Is there anything about this country that you do like?

    You're one angry dude.
    I'm about as pissed off as any decent human is and should be under these circumstances. Emotionally, spiritually I'm in a good place. Never better.
    I could see how you could read it as angry as you support a lot of the things I find hateful. Just evil, evil shit.
    But me as a person? No I'm not angry.

    You wouldn't like me when Im angry.
    Got some cash
    Bought some wheels
    Took it out
    'Cross the fields
    Lost Control
    Hit a wall
    But we're alright

  7. #747
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Is there anything about this country that you do like?

    You're one angry dude.
    That's nothing but a deflective response seasoned with a hint of disparagement, Corso. Rather than doing that you might consider approaching it in an intellectually honest fashion and address the payload of the statement, ask why someone might offer it, and maybe drill down in to the historical and current realities of it.
    John Clay
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay View Post
    That's nothing but a deflective response seasoned with a hint of disparagement, Corso. Rather than doing that you might consider approaching it in an intellectually honest fashion and address the payload of the statement, ask why someone might offer it, and maybe drill down in to the historical and current realities of it.
    John, is there anything YOU like about this country?

    I'll post and ask what I choose, I choose not need to follow your suggested format.

    Chasea is a big boy, he can answer for himself.

    But thanks for your critique. Add a hint sarcasm to your list.
     

  9. #749
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Is there anything about this country that you do like?

    You're one angry dude.
    I liked Duckworth’s NYT editorial...
    Jason Babcock

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    John, is there anything YOU like about this country?

    I'll post and ask what I choose, I choose not need to follow your suggested format.

    Chasea is a big boy, he can answer for himself.

    But thanks for your critique. Add a hint sarcasm to your list.
    I pay my taxes. I pay your social security. I donate to the ACLU and NAACP Legal Defense Fund. I march in the streets. I write Black Lives Matter on public property.

    I don't do empty, performative gestures like list what I like about America to prove I'm a patriot. "I choose not need to follow your suggested format" (sic)
    Got some cash
    Bought some wheels
    Took it out
    'Cross the fields
    Lost Control
    Hit a wall
    But we're alright

  11. #751
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    I think the former Mayor of Minneapolis really hits home on this OpEd.

    As Mayor of Minneapolis, I Saw How White Liberals Block Change
    2020-07-09 20:55:52.434 GMT

    By Betsy Hodges

    (New York Times) -- But this revolutionary moment is inviting us to be a part
    of the solution.

    Democrats have largely led big and midsize cities for much of the past
    half-century. Yet the gaps in socioeconomic outcomes between white people and
    people of color are by several measures at their worst in the richest, bluest
    cities of the United States.

    How could this be? Because high-profile cultural conservatives ask this
    question so disingenuously, white liberals have generally brushed aside this
    reality rather than grappled with its urgency. There’s now a danger that this
    sidestepping will continue, even after a national evaluation of racism since
    the brutal police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.

    As the mayor of Minneapolis from 2014 to 2018, as a Minneapolis City Council
    member from 2006 until 2014 and as a white Democrat, I can say this: White
    liberals, despite believing we are saying and doing the right things, have
    resisted the systemic changes our cities have needed for decades. We have
    mostly settled for illusions of change, like testing pilot programs and
    funding volunteer opportunities.

    These efforts make us feel better about racism, but fundamentally change
    little for the communities of color whose disadvantages often come from the
    hoarding of advantage by mostly white neighborhoods.

    In Minneapolis, the white liberals I represented as a Council member and mayor
    were very supportive of summer jobs programs that benefited young people of
    color. I also saw them fight every proposal to fundamentally change how we
    provide education to those same young people. They applauded restoring funding
    for the rental assistance hotline. They also signed petitions and brought
    lawsuits against sweeping reform to zoning laws that would promote housing
    affordability and integration.

    Nowhere is this dynamic of preserving white comfort at the expense of others
    more visible than in policing. Whether we know it or not, white liberal people
    in blue cities implicitly ask police officers to politely stand guard in
    predominantly white parts of town (where the downside of bad policing is
    usually inconvenience) and to aggressively patrol the parts of town where
    people of color live — where the consequences of bad policing are fear,
    violent abuse, mass incarceration and, far too often, death.

    Underlying these requests are the flawed beliefs that aggressive patrolling of
    Black communities provides a wall of protection around white people and our
    property.

    Police officers understand the dynamic well. We give them lethal tools and a
    lot of leeway to keep our parts of town safe (a mandate implicitly understood
    to be “safe from people of color.”) That leeway attracts people who want to
    misuse it.

    Minneapolis historically has some of the worst racial disparities in the
    country. When I was mayor, despite changes like instituting body cameras and
    investing more in training, policing outcomes for people of color never
    improved as much as I hoped. The disparities in arrest rates and use of force,
    for instance, remained glaringly high.

    On Nov. 15, 2015, during my term as mayor, two Minneapolis police officers
    shot and killed Jamar Clark, an unarmed Black man. An 18-day encampment set up
    by protesters surrounding the grounds of the Fourth Police Precinct house
    followed.

    But instead of greatly increasing police presence and needlessly arresting
    people for blocking the street or for having tents on public property, I
    decided to let the protests and encampment continue while we negotiated with
    protesters toward a more peaceful conclusion.

    Minneapolis police officers, who were worried about the precinct house’s being
    taken over and burned down (as the Third Precinct station was during last
    month’s uprising), guarded the building and found themselves frustrated by
    what they saw as conflicting orders.

    “They’ve got fires in the street!”

    “They’re out there smoking weed. We can smell it in here.”

    “They spray-painted the precinct!”

    Acts that they would have arrested people for under normal circumstances. I
    heard complaints like this at every shift change I attended, shepherded inside
    by a security vehicle. Before long, I knew that if I didn’t explain to the
    officers what exactly I was asking of them, we had little hope of safely and
    effectively saving the city from widespread unrest.

    “Look,” I told them. “You know what will happen if I let you go out there and
    just arrest people. There will be riots.” I told them I wanted them to get
    home safely at the end of their shifts and to give us time to find a peaceful
    resolution.

    I remember clearly one officer, a middle-aged white man, who is now a sergeant
    with the department, looking me dead in the eye and cursing me out in front of
    the entire room. I needed to take a walk in their shoes, he said, peppering
    his insults with profanity, so that I could “know what that’s like.” He
    complained of protesters’ “calling us names, getting in our faces” and
    throwing objects at officers. And “you’re letting them,” he said.

    The not fully said bottom line of his message was clear: White liberals like
    me ask the police to do our dirty work — dealing with the racial and economic
    inequities our policies create. Normally, we turn a blind eye to the harsh
    methods that many of them use to achieve our goal of order, pretend that isn’t
    what we’ve done and then act surprised when their tough-guy behavior goes
    viral and gets renewed scrutiny.

    Whatever else you want to say about police officers, they know — whether they
    articulate it neatly or not — that we are asking them to step into a breach
    left by our bad policies. The creation of more-just systems won’t guarantee
    the prevention of atrocities. But the status quo in cities, created by white
    liberals, invites brutal policing.

    Last month, a veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council voted to
    alter the city’s charter to disband the Police Department. The Council has
    since heard calls from residents, including many Black residents, to have
    “broad community input and a deliberate process before the charter change is
    put to voters.”

    Whatever the result, a sustainable transformation of policing will require
    that white people of means disinvest in the comfort of our status quo.

    It will require support of policy changes that cities led by white liberals
    are currently using the blunt instrument of policing to address. It will mean
    organizing for structural changes that wealthy and middle-class whites have
    long feared — like creating school systems that truly give all children a
    chance, providing health care for everyone that isn’t tied to employment,
    reconfiguring police unions and instituting public safety protocols that don’t
    simply prioritize protecting white property and lives.

    On the other side of these different choices is a better world for everyone,
    including us. For generations, white people have been trading genuine
    connectedness in the human family for the poor substitute of property values
    and perceived superiority. Some may think we have a lot to lose. But racial
    equity wouldn’t be a loss for us. It would be a reclamation of our humanity.

    White people, we are capable of accepting the invitation this moment has given
    us. If we find ways to make our actions match our beliefs this time around,
    the country will be far better off, and so will we.

    Betsy Hodges was the mayor of Minneapolis from 2014 to 2018.

    The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor.
    We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are
    some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

    Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion)
    and Instagram.

    Click Here to see the story as it appeared on the New York Times website.

    Copyright 2020 The New York Times Company

    -0- Jul/09/2020 20:55 GMT
     

  12. #752
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    I'll post Tammy Duckworth's OpEd since it is definitely worth reading:

    Tammy Duckworth: Tucker Carlson Doesn’t Know What Patriotism Is
    2020-07-09 21:41:33.328 GMT

    By Tammy Duckworth

    (New York Times) -- Neither does President Trump.

    A little over 240 years ago, two of my ancestors put on the uniform of George
    Washington’s Continental Army and marched into battle, willing to die if it
    meant bringing their fledgling nation inches closer to independence. Centuries
    later, in 1992, I followed in their footsteps and joined the Army.

    Even knowing how my tour in Iraq would turn out, even knowing that I’d lose
    both my legs in a battlefield just north of Baghdad in late 2004, I would do
    it all over again. Because if there’s anything that my ancestors’ service
    taught me, it’s the importance of protecting our founding values, including
    every American’s right to speak out. In a nation born out of an act of
    protest, there is nothing more patriotic than standing up for what you believe
    in, even if it goes against those in power.

    Our founders’ refusal to blindly follow their leader was what I was reflecting
    on this Fourth of July weekend, when some on the far right started attacking
    me for suggesting that all Americans should be heard, even those whose
    opinions differ from our own. Led by the Fox News host Tucker Carlson and
    egged on by President Trump, they began questioning my love for the country I
    went to war to protect, using words I never actually said and ascribing a
    position to me that I do not actually hold.

    Mr. Carlson disingenuously claimed that because I expressed an openness to “a
    national dialogue” about our founders’ complex legacies, people like me
    “actually hate America.” One night later, he claimed that I called George
    Washington a traitor even though I had unambiguously answered no when asked
    whether anyone could justify saying that he was. Then he argued that changes
    to monuments of our founders “deserve a debate,” which, somehow, was different
    and more acceptable to him than the “national dialogue” that led him to
    question my patriotism just 24 hours earlier.

    Setting aside the fact that the right wing’s right to lie about me is one of
    the rights I fought to defend, let me be clear: I don’t want George
    Washington’s statue to be pulled down any more than I want the Purple Heart
    that he established to be ripped off my chest. I never said that I did.

    But while I would risk my own safety to protect a statue of his from harm,
    I’ll fight to my last breath to defend every American’s freedom to have his or
    her own opinion about Washington’s flawed history. What some on the other side
    don’t seem to understand is that we can honor our founders while acknowledging
    their serious faults, including the undeniable fact that many of them enslaved
    Black Americans.

    Because while we have never been a perfect union, we have always sought to be
    a more perfect union — and in order to do so, we cannot whitewash our missteps
    and mistakes. We must learn from them instead.

    But what I actually said isn’t the reason Mr. Carlson and Mr. Trump are
    questioning my patriotism, nor is it why they’re using the same racist insults
    against me that have been slung my way time and again in years past, though
    they have never worked on me.

    They’re doing it because they’re desperate for America’s attention to be on
    anything other than Donald Trump’s failure to lead our nation, and because
    they think that Mr. Trump’s electoral prospects will be better if they can
    turn us against one another. Their goal isn’t to make — or keep — America
    great. It’s to keep Mr. Trump in power, whatever the cost.

    It’s better for Mr. Trump to have you focused on whether an Asian-American
    woman is sufficiently American than to have you mourning the 130,000 Americans
    killed by a virus he claimed would disappear in February. It’s better for his
    campaign to distract Americans with whether a combat veteran is sufficiently
    patriotic than for people to recall that this failed commander in chief has
    still apparently done nothing about reports of Russia putting bounties on the
    heads of American troops in Afghanistan.

    Mr. Trump and his team have made the political calculation that, no matter
    what, they can’t let Americans remember that so many of his decisions suggest
    that he cares more about lining his pockets and bolstering his political
    prospects than he does about protecting our troops or our nation.

    They should know, though, that attacks from self-serving, insecure men who
    can’t tell the difference between true patriotism and hateful nationalism will
    never diminish my love for this country — or my willingness to sacrifice for
    it so they don’t have to. These titanium legs don’t buckle.

    The hateful vision for America parroted by Mr. Trump and Mr. Carlson will not
    win. Their relentless efforts to drive wedges between us will not work
    forever. We are too resilient a nation, too diverse a people, to let them.

    In his farewell address, George Washington not only recognized his own
    imperfections, he also urged Americans to “guard against the impostures of
    pretended patriotism” and be wary of excessive partisanship. In the
    generations since, too many patriots, including many in my own family, have
    sacrificed too much to let our guard down now.

    So when Tucker Carlson questions the patriotism of those willing to sacrifice
    for his freedom, or when Donald Trump promotes those smears — after having
    threatened to veto a pay raise for our troops to try to ensure the military
    continues honoring Confederate traitors who took up arms against our Union —
    remember Washington’s words.

    Remember that part of what has always made America not just great but good is
    that every American has the right to question those in charge. Anyone claiming
    to stand up for “patriotic” values should recognize that, because, without it,
    the country these impostor patriots claim to love so much would not exist.

    Our nation deserves leaders mature and secure enough not to race-bait or
    swift-boat anyone who dares disagree with them. After these past four years,
    and especially after these past four months, it’s clearer than ever that we
    must choose public servants who will focus on the serious issues facing our
    country — from the spread of the coronavirus to systemic racism to foreign
    adversaries threatening our troops’ lives — rather than cynical bullies who
    use schoolyard tactics to distract from their own shortcomings.

    So while I would put on my old uniform and go to war all over again to protect
    the right of Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump to say offensive things on TV and
    Twitter, I will also spend every moment I can from now until November fighting
    to elect leaders who would rather do good for their country than do well for
    themselves.

    Tammy Duckworth (@SenDuckworth) is a Democratic senator from Illinois.

    The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor.
    We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are
    some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

    Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion)
    and Instagram.

    Click Here to see the story as it appeared on the New York Times website.

    Copyright 2020 The New York Times Company

    -0- Jul/09/2020 21:41 GMT
     

  13. #753
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    --- i read all this shit...
    hey.., the local military recruiter is looking for bad-asses full of hate...

    ronnie.., no longer care to hate or be a bad-ass
     

  14. #754
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by chasea View Post
    I pay my taxes. I pay your social security. I donate to the ACLU and NAACP Legal Defense Fund. I march in the streets. I write Black Lives Matter on public property.

    I don't do empty, performative gestures like list what I like about America to prove I'm a patriot. "I choose not need to follow your suggested format" (sic)
    Well said.

    I'll leave it at that.
     

  15. #755
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    I'll post Tammy Duckworth's OpEd since it is definitely worth reading:
    It is worth repeating.

    “ They should know, though, that attacks from self-serving, insecure men who
    can’t tell the difference between true patriotism and hateful nationalism will
    never diminish my love for this country — or my willingness to sacrifice for
    it so they don’t have to. These titanium legs don’t buckle.”
    Jason Babcock

  16. #756
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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Is there anything about this country that you do like?

    You're one angry dude.
    Keep it friendly Corso.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
    --Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    No one asked me but...

    90% of what I love about this country is it's physical geography.

    The rest is a biased personal affinity for the place I was born and have lived my entire life in.

    The only uniquely American value I love is the original intent for the country to be a new beginning for anyone from anywhere.
     

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    What I love about this country largely comes from songs I learned growing up in the '60's when I sang in a school glee club and a church choir. That's where my ideals and beliefs were formed. They have been shaped by my education, which was predicated on becoming aware of my prejudice and working past it because it was limiting and the primary purpose of education is to expand one's horizons. Twenty-seven years living in New York City took this a big step further. I am far from done learning at 63 years old.

    But I knew the minute that useless human being entered the race we were in for a very shitty time. My hope is that something better comes of this because time is running out.
    Jay Dwight

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Having just read the news, before which I wondered what the fool had done Friday night.

    You have to go back to Nelson Rockefeller to find a more explicit response to the American people.

    Vice President Rockefeller gives the middle finger, 1976 - Rare Historical Photos

    Jay Dwight

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    Default Re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Well worth the 15 minutes to watch, in my opinion. We have to de-militarize the police.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...lice-blinding/

    Every one of these instances is an egregious abuse of “less lethal” weaponry. Most are obviously headshots taken at close range. In one instance the provocation is a 59-year-old woman tossing a can, an empty aluminum drink can, in the direction of police who are 30 yards away. She’s then hit with a beanbag between the eyes, which lodges in her skull.

    Shot in the head for littering.

    Eight people blinded. Eight lies as to why.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin

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