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Thread: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    It's been the proverbial minute since I took a sociology class or read a text on rioting. Would love to hear from clinicians and academics about the psychology, sociology and demography of looting in the United States. I want to avoid resorting to words or concepts such as opportunism or misdirected anger. What drives the small percentage of individuals who want free shit? Are they protestors who decide to embrace a temporary, relative morality? Are they individuals who have been exploited by the legal system, ie, faced incarceration or previous detention? Are the majority products of a broken, underfunded, indifferent educational system? Savage inequalities, indeed.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by sonicw View Post
    Why no condemnation of the violent police? Does anyone see my point here?
    Just to clarify I meant by the police themselves. Condemnation would not have occurred without video footage and widespread protests. That is a problem. Expecting a condemnation of arson done by anarchists from peaceful protesters is a double standard.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    Buildings can be rebuilt. The generations of lives destroyed or snuffed out by systematic racism can't be.
    And the President single handedly trampling all over the First Amendment for a shitty photo op, using the military to do so, is a rubicon we're crossing that I fear there's no coming back from.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    This so brilliantly demonstrates the concept of White fragility. For once, just once, maybe it's not about us.
    Those with most to lose get the most anxious about this concept.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    And the President single handedly trampling all over the First Amendment for a shitty photo op, using the military to do so, is a rubicon we're crossing that I fear there's no coming back from.
    I sincerely hope that the nation takes a large lesson from the last 3.5 years and figures out how to fix some stuff... The margin for error is getting much too small for comfort.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    I sincerely hope that the nation takes a large lesson from the last 3.5 years and figures out how to fix some stuff... The margin for error is getting much too small for comfort.
    Pentagon is already refusing requests from Congress to testify on the matter. The blanket ignoring of any oversight from Congress sets a dangerous precedent. I mean, I would love it for President AOC when she institutes public health insurance and bans all guns beyond bolt action hunting rifles. But that's not how our system is designed to work.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    I thought these articles were interesting. At least they gave me some clarity on aspects of this conflict I found confusing.

    The first is from the NYTimes on the rise of the political power of police unions.

    How Police Unions Became Such Powerful Opponents to Reform Efforts - The New York Times

    This one is from Politico on the growth of armed federal law enforcement agencies.

    The Story Behind Bill Barr’s Unmarked Federal Agents - POLITICO
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    Pentagon is already refusing requests from Congress to testify on the matter. The blanket ignoring of any oversight from Congress sets a dangerous precedent. I mean, I would love it for President AOC when she institutes public health insurance and bans all guns beyond bolt action hunting rifles. But that's not how our system is designed to work.
    The refusal of oversight is exactly the sort of problem that the framers had not imagined. Getting a responsible Senate in place that understands and respects the oversight role of the congress is critical.

    We cant have nice things (Ha! normal working government) again until we reestablish the proper rule of law... Keeping everyone's eye on the november prize is critical.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
    --Douglas Adams

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    RE: Arson -

    In Portland, Police have been caught setting fires in dumpsters and then blaming it on the protestors (caught on film), and MAGA misfits from the suburbs have been caught instigating violence (there's a fence the Police hold as sacred and if you touch it they start blasting [insert Danny Devito meme]) and then running into the crowd. Not everything is as it seems. And when demonstrators have spent a week trying to be peaceful and have their message heard, only to be shot, gassed, corralled, and run over, I have a hard time blaming any of them for fighting back - which, even still, is it really fighting back when you throw a water bottle in response to being shot?
    Dan in Oregon

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Seems like the details on the park clearing may slowly be revealed. Another parcel of documents turns up at the NYTimes.

    Pentagon Ordered National Guard Helicopters’ Aggressive Response in D.C. - The New York Times
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by beeatnik View Post
    It's been the proverbial minute since I took a sociology class or read a text on rioting. Would love to hear from clinicians and academics about the psychology, sociology and demography of looting in the United States. I want to avoid resorting to words or concepts such as opportunism or misdirected anger. What drives the small percentage of individuals who want free shit? Are they protestors who decide to embrace a temporary, relative morality? Are they individuals who have been exploited by the legal system, ie, faced incarceration or previous detention? Are the majority products of a broken, underfunded, indifferent educational system? Savage inequalities, indeed.
    I find this to be a little offensive sir.
    Then again, it's not the first time.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmdesigner View Post
    I find this to be a little offensive sir.
    Then again, it's not the first time.
    Haha, please elaborate.

    I was a kid who knew a lot of looters in 92 and, trust me, none were protesting police violence or cared about anyone in South Central. I know that's changed and I'd like to hear from voices supporting that hypothesis with, you know, empirical shit.

    Designerpal, you should check out the images from Santa Monica (and Melrose and Van Nuys).
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by beeatnik View Post
    It's been the proverbial minute since I took a sociology class or read a text on rioting. Would love to hear from clinicians and academics about the psychology, sociology and demography of looting in the United States. I want to avoid resorting to words or concepts such as opportunism or misdirected anger. What drives the small percentage of individuals who want free shit? Are they protestors who decide to embrace a temporary, relative morality? Are they individuals who have been exploited by the legal system, ie, faced incarceration or previous detention? Are the majority products of a broken, underfunded, indifferent educational system? Savage inequalities, indeed.
    There was a decent article on the subject of why some protests turn violent and looting was mentioned in the piece.

    George Floyd death: Why do some protests turn violent? George Floyd death: Why do some protests turn violent? - BBC News
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmdesigner View Post
    I find this to be a little offensive sir.
    Then again, it's not the first time.
    Brown Skin in the Game

    This is my sister standing in front of her shop. She reconciled herself to it being looted by someone who looks like her and likely grew up under similar socioeconomic circumstances. She would not judge looters for their actions especially when she's been out in the streets and possibly encountered one or two in the last week.

    littleshed.jpg

    So, I'm not demonizing, abstracting or dehumanizing if that's what you're suggesting.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by beeatnik View Post
    Haha, please elaborate.

    I was a kid who knew a lot of looters in 92 and, trust me, none were protesting police violence or cared about anyone in South Central. I know that's changed and I'd like to hear from voices supporting that hypothesis with, you know, empirical shit.


    Designerpal, you should check out the images from Santa Monica (and Melrose and Van Nuys).
    So if you have your mind made up why are you asking for more input?
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    ^Because maybe the looting narrative is fucked? I think around here the subtext has been that some people are being pushed to desperate acts by a type of mass consciousness. They've had enough and a little collateral violence should be expected or even romanticized. All good. But, what if the reality is that a segment of society has been so marginalized that looting is the only protest, only act of defiance. Chaos over action. In many ways, I relate more to the looters than the peaceful protestors and that is a sad manifestation of the true alienation (in the Marxist sense) of the underclass (of which I am a member).
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by beeatnik View Post
    ^Because maybe the looting narrative is fucked? I think around here the subtext has been that some people are being pushed to desperate acts by a type of mass consciousness. They've had enough and a little collateral violence should be expected or even romanticized. All good. But, what if the reality is that a segment of society has been so marginalized that looting is the only protest, only act of defiance. Chaos over action. In many ways, I relate more to the looters than the peaceful protestors and that is a sad manifestation of the true alienation (in the Marxist sense) of the underclass (of which I am a member).
    I am a white man who has lived on the edge of Harlem for 25 years.
    I am no closer to knowing what to do today than I was 25 years ago.
    I miss my friends and neighbors in the neighborhood. I cannot speak for them because I have not lived their lives.
    But I live here and it is my home. And I can't stand what is happening. But I think it needs to happen.
     

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    When I was teaching in Phoenix AZ, I team taught a great Honors class with a colleague who taught history while I taught the literature of the particular era. A great books course as it were, with plenty of essay writing, research writing. When we got to the Renaissance, I assigned a paper that asked the students to select a work of art and create an essay that established the historical context and explain how they felt it related to the content and the biography of the artist. Cite your sources! The library at the community college was okay, but I wanted the students to do some paper-based digging. So we carpooled from the college over to the Phoenix Museum of Art and visited their art library. We met a librarian who ran through the research tools, the stacks, etc. The students spent some time figuring things out, but they would come back later to work on their essays over the next couple weeks.

    As we got ready to leave, I noticed there was a show of Frida Kahlo's work. Half the students were Hispanic, and while it is cliché to take your Hispanic students to see Frida Kahlo, it is only cliché if you are already a cynical member of that milieu. For the students, it was completely brand new. So we went to see the exhibit. Some students quite obviously got their worlds rocked, which was fun, and the others generally liked what they saw. On the way out, one of the Hispanic students said "That was cool. I didn't know we were allowed to come here." I said, "Yeah, the library looks private, but really it is completely open to the public." She said, "No, I meant the museum."

    It never would have occurred to me in a million years that she meant the museum. How could you somehow internalize the lack of permission to be anywhere that is expressly public?

    What if you internalize the lack of permission to be anywhere period, not just in the museum. Anywhere. Everywhere.

    I don't know why people become looters.
    Last edited by j44ke; 06-06-2020 at 10:12 PM.
    Jorn Ake
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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I don't know why people become looters.
    Interesting to mention looters in a thread about museums.



    European museums need to do more than return Africa’s looted art — Quartz Africa
    Last edited by thollandpe; 06-06-2020 at 10:14 PM.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin

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    Default re: Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    Interesting to mention looters in a thread about museums. You picking up what I'm putting down?
    Indeed. Touché.
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