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Thread: Middle east.

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    We started attacking Iran, Iraq and other parts of the Middle East long before they did anything to us. This situation didn't just spontaneously erupt out of thin air. Of late we've been supplying arms, information and logistical support that have been used to kill thousands of civilians in our proxy wars over control of oil and other resources in that region (not to mention others). Trump moronically scuttled the JCPOA with Iran and has been attempting to destroy their economy through various sanctions. The latter is an act of war and it will be a great day when our allies tell us to fuck off and start opposing our stupid geopolitical games. Is this how Trump gets us out of the Middle East and unnecessary conflicts?? Big surprise there was a backlash. Our war in Iraq was responsible for the deaths of around a million civilians that had nothing to do with anything; and Iraq didn't launch the September 11 attacks. Gee, how amazing that they might be a little scratchy about our presence and activities in their part of the world. In a decent world George Bush and certain members of his administration would have been tried for war crimes. It's real simple: If you don't want folks to attack our embassies, our people or our country then don't kill and otherwise screw over the populations of other countries for decades. Don't support dictators. Don't topple governments just because they don't do things “our way” or aren't willing to sell us their resources on the cheap. Don't put nukes in Turkey and then wonder why the USSR sent the same to Cuba. Understand the colonial history of Viet Nam BEFORE you decide that it'd be a swell idea to invade it. And open your eyes; all of this, ALL OF IT is ultimately about resource hegemony. If we were only modestly wise, say a solid C- student who wasn't frightened to look in the mirror, we'd redirect half of our military expenditures to modernizing our infrastructure and raising the education and skill levels for our people, and basically be preparing for a world in which oil supplies and other resources will dwindle, and climate change will become a severe issue and generate others. Or we can continue being the stupid, overgrown global bully that we have become and destroy everything in our path. Depressingly my money is on the latter.

    Jesus, I hear people thanking Trump for "protecting my freedom". What a joke.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    An angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes."...Cato the Elder...this statement still holds true over 2,000 years later. The driving force behind our current domestic and foreign policy is essentially explained in ten words.
    rw saunders
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    This has nothing to do with religion. Religion is just an excuse and the weapon/tool.
    Islamic revolution. AQ. Sunni x shiite. Christians backing Trump.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

     

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    I came here for the socks.

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    If Trump did it, then it must be right. After all, he is the Chose One, isn't he?

    It would all be a farce, if it weren't such deadly serious stuff.

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabouya View Post
    If Trump did it, then it must be right. After all, he is the Chose One, isn't he?

    It would all be a farce, if it weren't such deadly serious stuff.
    Lets see the results so far. A bad guy was taken off. Iraq will throw american troops out. Iranians will take influence over Iraq and also Syria. Curds will be left on their own and so will iraqi Sunnis. Iran gained tremendous ground. Russia gained some. The US lost. Great success.
    I came here for the socks.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by colker View Post
    Invading Iraq and hoping for a western democracy there wins the competition. Imagine the russians reading that copy... The iranians just bought more ammo.
    The US pulled it off in Japan, but Paul Bremmer was no Douglas MacArthur, or Gertrude Bell for that matter.
     

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott G. View Post
    The US pulled it off in Japan, but Paul Bremmer was no Douglas MacArthur, or Gertrude Bell for that matter.
    "It all works well untill it doesnt"
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    The impeached ferret wearing shitgibbon golfer in chief now doubles down on his intent to commit war crimes with his 52 site attack plan. And he declares twitter now replaces the War Powers Act. This from the guy whose official record warned everyone incessantly that Obama would start a war with Iran(or some country)to aid in his re-election. It's a good thing all of our allies will back us whatever comes next, right? He's not one one thousandth the man Obama is. He knows it, and will die with that in his cesspool brain along with Hillary(the other warmonger, remember?)cackling in his head.
     

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay View Post
    We started attacking Iran, Iraq and other parts of the Middle East long before they did anything to us. This situation didn't just spontaneously erupt out of thin air. Of late we've been supplying arms, information and logistical support that have been used to kill thousands of civilians in our proxy wars over control of oil and other resources in that region (not to mention others). Trump moronically scuttled the JCPOA with Iran and has been attempting to destroy their economy through various sanctions. The latter is an act of war and it will be a great day when our allies tell us to fuck off and start opposing our stupid geopolitical games. Is this how Trump gets us out of the Middle East and unnecessary conflicts?? Big surprise there was a backlash. Our war in Iraq was responsible for the deaths of around a million civilians that had nothing to do with anything; and Iraq didn't launch the September 11 attacks. Gee, how amazing that they might be a little scratchy about our presence and activities in their part of the world. In a decent world George Bush and certain members of his administration would have been tried for war crimes. It's real simple: If you don't want folks to attack our embassies, our people or our country then don't kill and otherwise screw over the populations of other countries for decades. Don't support dictators. Don't topple governments just because they don't do things “our way” or aren't willing to sell us their resources on the cheap. Don't put nukes in Turkey and then wonder why the USSR sent the same to Cuba. Understand the colonial history of Viet Nam BEFORE you decide that it'd be a swell idea to invade it. And open your eyes; all of this, ALL OF IT is ultimately about resource hegemony. If we were only modestly wise, say a solid C- student who wasn't frightened to look in the mirror, we'd redirect half of our military expenditures to modernizing our infrastructure and raising the education and skill levels for our people, and basically be preparing for a world in which oil supplies and other resources will dwindle, and climate change will become a severe issue and generate others. Or we can continue being the stupid, overgrown global bully that we have become and destroy everything in our path. Depressingly my money is on the latter.

    Jesus, I hear people thanking Trump for "protecting my freedom". What a joke.
    This says it all.
     

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    The ironic thing is that Trump's now threatening "very big" sanctions on Iraq if they kick out the US military, but all this time it was a campaign promise of his back in 2016 to withdraw the US military from the entire area.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott G. View Post
    The US pulled it off in Japan, but Paul Bremmer was no Douglas MacArthur, or Gertrude Bell for that matter.
    Japan is not Iraq. Read Embracing Surrender for more detail on post-war Japan.

    MacArthur is not a favorite in our family after my mother, aunt and grandparents spent three years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp in Manila after MacArthur left.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Japan is not Iraq. Read Embracing Surrender for more detail on post-war Japan.

    MacArthur is not a favorite in our family after my mother, aunt and grandparents spent three years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp in Manila after MacArthur left.
    I am reading an Octavio Paz essay on Basho and Haiku. Its a wonderfull read.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabouya View Post
    The ironic thing is that Trump's now threatening "very big" sanctions on Iraq if they kick out the US military, but all this time it was a campaign promise of his back in 2016 to withdraw the US military from the entire area.
    He can say that because the vote was not valid. Only Shia parliament members voted, no Sunni or Kurds voted. They'll back off, the last thing they want is another civil war. The neighbors to the west are Sunni and have a lot of weapons. I don't want to get into the politics of it, but the guy needed to die and should have been killed sooner. His actions and support resulted in hundreds of US soldier's deaths and many times that in soldiers that were maimed by the roadside bombs that Iran furnished to insurgents. While I'm not a fan of the timing, I'm also not privy to the intelligence involved in the decision. I also don't expect an explanation of the intelligence, how it was obtained needs to stay classified.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    He can say that because the vote was not valid. Only Shia parliament members voted, no Sunni or Kurds voted. They'll back off, the last thing they want is another civil war. The neighbors to the west are Sunni and have a lot of weapons. I don't want to get into the politics of it, but the guy needed to die and should have been killed sooner. His actions and support resulted in hundreds of US soldier's deaths and many times that in soldiers that were maimed by the roadside bombs that Iran furnished to insurgents. While I'm not a fan of the timing, I'm also not privy to the intelligence involved in the decision. I also don't expect an explanation of the intelligence, how it was obtained needs to stay classified.
    I would be far more inclined to believe the administration of they didn't shittily lie about everything under the sun that is completely inconsequential. And given the President's campaign plank he's going to be exiting the Middle East, this largest escalation in the last 40 years with Iran deserves a more public case than "trust me."

    And this isn't some nonstate actor terror group. I suspect our response would be a tad different if Iran killed the head of US CENTCOM.
     

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by colker View Post
    I am reading an Octavio Paz essay on Basho and Haiku. Its a wonderfull read.
    That's great but I am not sure how that relates to the discussion.
    Last edited by j44ke; 01-06-2020 at 01:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    That's great but I am not sure how that relates to the discussion.
    Oh yeah... where is my mind?
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    He can say that because the vote was not valid. Only Shia parliament members voted, no Sunni or Kurds voted. They'll back off, the last thing they want is another civil war. The neighbors to the west are Sunni and have a lot of weapons. I don't want to get into the politics of it, but the guy needed to die and should have been killed sooner. His actions and support resulted in hundreds of US soldier's deaths and many times that in soldiers that were maimed by the roadside bombs that Iran furnished to insurgents. While I'm not a fan of the timing, I'm also not privy to the intelligence involved in the decision. I also don't expect an explanation of the intelligence, how it was obtained needs to stay classified.
    I cant see anyone feeling any safer after that.
    I came here for the socks.

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    Default Re: Middle east.

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    I would be far more inclined to believe the administration of they didn't shittily lie about everything under the sun that is completely inconsequential. And given the President's campaign plank he's going to be exiting the Middle East, this largest escalation in the last 40 years with Iran deserves a more public case than "trust me."[snip]
    By threatening epic sanctions POTUS is ginning up anti-american sentiment to maneuver the Iraqis into asking the US to leave, thus full filling his campaign pledge.
    POTUS can be subtle.
     

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