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Thread: irrational fear of flying

  1. #321
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    MacGyver would have unbuckled the pilot's pants, grabbed those, ripped them off, fashioned them into a wingsuit during his free-fall and after a few loops, wind-up turns and split-S's glided down to a landing next to the kite.

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay View Post
    There appears to be much more to this crash. It's sounding like a new flight control system for which the pilots weren't trained and adverse changes in pitch dynamics of the airframe may be the root cause of the crash. Intestring reading, here:

    Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta - Page 77 - PPRuNe Forums

    I've only skimmed the posts but I don't like what I'm reading. Someone who's read more about it than I thinks that Boeing billed it as a 737 "so no addnl training needed for pilots of other 737 variants"; implication being that the operator wasn't alerted to the operation of this new Manual Control Augmentation System system. If I understand correctly the MCAS thought it was stalling, pushed the nose over and the pilots didn't know how to defeat it, or even what was responsible for the action.

    As one pilot noted: The pilot is always supposed to have the final say. When you pull, the houses are supposed to get smaller....always.
    I think I initially read a report in the NY Times that suggest the plane in question had safety issues prior to its last ill-fated flight.

    This initial report appears to confirm it. Which, was the point of my post - if it shouldn't have been flying, it shouldn't have been flying. Buyer beware on low cost airlines.

    Doomed Lion Air jet was '''not airworthy''' on penultimate flight
     

  3. #323
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    I think it is convenient for Boeing that there seems to a missed opportunity to ground the plane and repair the malfunctioning sensor, but that doesn't exonerate them from poor communication on procedures for a new system of flight controls without accompanying technical training of pilots. It appears the decision to only publish the information as a bulletin rather than requiring full training on the new system was an economic decision to make their plane more competitive against Airbus. Training is expensive and being able to offer a new plane containing new systems without accompanying training period makes the planes effectively less expensive.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.a78c536b7545

    In a more aggressive federal regulatory environment, Boeing would be in big trouble I think. Their stock price seems to reflect worries about their culpability and possible future settlements. We'll see.
    Last edited by j44ke; 11-29-2018 at 10:35 AM.
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  4. #324
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying



    To Mr. Bigshot sitting in 3C tonight from AUS-DTW...some hard working soul most likely making 1/100th of your salary has to clean up the _hitshow that you left behind. Yes, that was me calling you out as we left the aircraft.
    rw saunders
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  5. #325
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by rwsaunders View Post
    To Mr. Bigshot sitting in 3C tonight from AUS-DTW...some hard working soul most likely making 1/100th of your salary has to clean up the _hitshow that you left behind. Yes, that was me calling you out as we left the aircraft.
    To: Insignificant other person

    Mind your own business. Furthermore, I don't worry or care about other people - especially little people.

    Signed,
    Mr. Bigshot

    PS Did you notice my neatly manicured fingernails? One session at my spa probably costs more than you make in a week.

  6. #326
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I think it is convenient for Boeing that there seems to a missed opportunity to ground the plane and repair the malfunctioning sensor, but that doesn't exonerate them from poor communication on procedures for a new system of flight controls without accompanying technical training of pilots. It appears the decision to only publish the information as a bulletin rather than requiring full training on the new system was an economic decision to make their plane more competitive against Airbus. Training is expensive and being able to offer a new plane containing new systems without accompanying training period makes the planes effectively less expensive.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.a78c536b7545

    In a more aggressive federal regulatory environment, Boeing would be in big trouble I think. Their stock price seems to reflect worries about their culpability and possible future settlements. We'll see.
    Just saw this now. I flew a MAX 8 the other day and before the flight and on the ground the guy I was flying with and I tried all kinds of things with the trim. It can be switched off electrically just by hitting the "Stab Trim Cutoff" switches. Then you have manual control of the trim. Also, a runaway trim can be physically overpowered by grabbing the trim wheel. Finally, the trim wheel can be turned by hand. This is no different than on any other 737 model.

    Here is a photo of the pitch trim wheel I'm talking about. This is not my picture and it's not of a MAX8, but it's not meaningfully different in any way. All modern 737s have essentially the same center console. There is a trim wheel on both sides of the console and they are connected. This is the first officer's side. This wheel spins as the airplane trims itself with the autopilot on and when being flown manually the pilots control pitch trim with a switch on the control yoke. The green band is the normal operating range. In the lower left of the photograph are two switches that can remove electrical power from the trim system, enabling the crew to control pitch trim manually with the trim wheel. Visible in this picture is a flip-out handle that allows the pilot more leverage on the wheel.



    I've now read the preliminary report and this same thing happened the day before the accident flight. The crew handled it appropriately and in compliance with accepted procedures and checklists by switching off the electric trim and flying manually, trimming control forces by hand.

    The voice recorder hasn't yet been located as far as I'm aware.

    Here is the preliminary report.

    https://reports.aviation-safety.net/...RELIMINARY.pdf

    I haven't see anything yet that implicates Boeing or a faulty design. We need to wait until all the relevant information is published before we rush to condemn Boeing.
    La Cheeserie!

  7. #327
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Jim...you need to change your handle from Saab2000 to Stab2018.
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Itís a first world problem I know but hereís one for the frequent business travelers. I boarded the 5:18am flight this morning from PIT to ORD AA0103. I commented to my aislemate that this flight was fairly empty for a 737. Looking back, I was too observant...my mistake and I own it. Next time I just board and do the crossword puzzle.

    Shortly thereafter, fate struck me right between the eyes as I received this text message while I could see the baggage handlers loading luggage...ďAmerican Airlines 0103 from PIT to ORD departure time has changed to 3:00PM on Feb 13 from gate B26 in terminal Main. Reply STOP to unsubscribe.Ē

    I raised my hand and asked the FA if he received the same notice...no he did not. 2 minutes later we are instructed to leave the plane and see the gate agent. Guess what? Iím now on the 8:05am flight which miraculously is on the same plane at the same gate...something is rotten in Denmark donít you think? Oh and that first class upgrade...scratch that good buddy as you are now in 9A. Better than the afternoon flight thatís for sure and at least I still have time to have a productive day of meetings and a client dinner. No worries...now for some strong coffee and more positive karma.
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

  9. #329
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    why is it irrational? flying sucks! delays, lost luggage etc. only the destination makes me put up with it.
    trip in 6 weeks and i look forward to the cycling, not so much the airport. the part about being in the sky doesn't even register. its everything else -mike g
     

  10. #330
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    I've been flying a fair amount for awhile...
    One thing that has made it much more pleasant for me is I got a set of Bose sound deadening earpieces.
    It is unbelievable how noisy it is in the plane when you take them out.
    I never could watch a movie cause I had to turn up the volume really loud and it was never worth it.
    Makes a 6-7 hr flight much, much better.
    Amazing product if you fly often.
     

  11. #331
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    I sit in back a lot and bought my first set of Bose QC35s three years ago and within five minutes I wondered why I didn’t do it a decade sooner. That said, I also use active noise cancellation headsets and have done so for twenty years. Worth every penny.

    Right now there are some stupid fast jet streams going across the US, resulting in crappy turbulence and slow speeds if going east-to-west. I saw 180 knot winds today at 36,000ft. Fast flowing and wide rivers of air. Today I flew from BDL-MCO-GRR and the winds in the mid-30s and over the US mid-latitudes were crazy strong. North of Kentucky they died off fast, like 100+ knots, over just a few minutes.
    La Cheeserie!

  12. #332
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    my only complaint about my bose headphones is that you can't put them in airplane mode and just enjoy the silence. I suppose if I remembered to bring a cable it would stop broadcasting on bluetooth. I was impressed how well they filter out the aircraft noise, but they actually are really horrible at some other periodic noises. The worst so far has been using them near a tablesaw. It isn't that loud, but they totally missed on cancelling that noise. It really surprised me, probably better without the noise cancelling on.

    I was pleasantly surprised with American last week. It was the first airline experience I have had in a while where the airline didn't go out of their way to make into a hassle. Although the weather did that, 4 cancelled flights and we had to drive the final leg of the trip.
     

  13. #333
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by EricKeller View Post
    my only complaint about my bose headphones is that you can't put them in airplane mode and just enjoy the silence. I suppose if I remembered to bring a cable it would stop broadcasting on bluetooth. I was impressed how well they filter out the aircraft noise, but they actually are really horrible at some other periodic noises. The worst so far has been using them near a tablesaw. It isn't that loud, but they totally missed on cancelling that noise. It really surprised me, probably better without the noise cancelling on.

    I was pleasantly surprised with American last week. It was the first airline experience I have had in a while where the airline didn't go out of their way to make into a hassle. Although the weather did that, 4 cancelled flights and we had to drive the final leg of the trip.
    My biggest complaint with noise-canceling headphones (I have Bose) is they shut out the annoying aircraft noises, but I hear conversations of people around me clearer. Maybe foam ear plugs and Bose NC headphones?
     

  14. #334
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying







    These pups are 11 years old and have seen 1.2M miles in the air...so old that they are pre-wireless. About a year ago the ear foam started to delaminate from age and whisker rub and I was bummed. I stopped at a Bose store in an airport somewhere to ask about repairs and to my surprise, the woman replaced the ear foam right on the spot for $35.
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Mine came with a case and a wire and I use the wire 99.9% of the time even though it is a Bluetooth device. The battery lasts much longer. My iPad is also my iPod and my movie theater and my TV and my laptop when traveling.

    Advice, and it surely appears you follow this, is to use the case and save all the hardware thatís in the package. It is useful. And for desperate times I carry a Mophie battery of significant capacity. It will charge more than one device simultaneously and will charge them fully. Keep it topped off. This way Iím not hunting for a power outlet in the airport, ever.
    La Cheeserie!

  16. #336
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    ^ Saab...I joke that I carry 5# of clothing, 10# of electronic devices and 20# of cables and charging devices when I travel.
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by WayneJ View Post
    My biggest complaint with noise-canceling headphones (I have Bose) is they shut out the annoying aircraft noises, but I hear conversations of people around me clearer. Maybe foam ear plugs and Bose NC headphones?
    Most noise cancelling headphones have a window in the conversation frequencies. Some allow you to cancel everything and choose to cancel everything but voices. Years ago I thought noise cancellation headphones were the answer for the open office but was totally bummed that all they did was make the hammerheads so much more easy to hear. They've gotten a whole lot better according to my cousin that flies so much on Delta they almost bought him his own plane.
     

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    I play music or podcasts over mine when I sit in back, like I did today for a couple hours, and I can ignore all that surrounds me, especially if Iím zoned out with endless FreeCell games, to which Iíve been addicted for decades. Music and cards make the time fly, for me at least.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    The ones I have are ear bud type.
    I can't hear anything when they are in and on.
    It's awesome really!
    When I take them out I feel like I am inside the engine.
     

  20. #340
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
    I've been flying a fair amount for awhile...
    One thing that has made it much more pleasant for me is I got a set of Bose sound deadening earpieces.
    It is unbelievable how noisy it is in the plane when you take them out.
    I never could watch a movie cause I had to turn up the volume really loud and it was never worth it.
    Makes a 6-7 hr flight much, much better.
    Amazing product if you fly often.
    I agree with this. They make flying more bearable and it is amazing how loud the plane is when you take them off.

    I also think they are great for commuting (when not riding). The train (and other passengers) are loud.

    Great product.
     

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