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Thread: Climate Strike September 20

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    This "conversation" is insane.

    Stop attacking the trolls' ad hominem attacks. It's a ridiculous distraction from the actual issue. You are allowing this thread to be a series of attacks and defenses of the messenger and are ignoring (or avoiding) Greta's message:

    • Climate change is real and our planet is rapidly heating.
    • Mass extinction is real and, as far as the fossil record demonstrates, happening at a rate unmatched since our planet was enveloped in a cloud of fire and ash by a massive asteroid.
    • The world's political leaders are not doing nearly enough to address this planet-wide crisis.

    So please: Ignore the posters who want to turn this into a fight about a passionate, obsessive teenage girl. Or the young Americans who organized and ran these protests. Or Obama. Or a fellow Salonista's daughter.

    You might have noticed that none of them has attacked the facts or the scientific consensus around this issue. The worst we got from one of them was, "is anyone against pure air and water?", and another implied an equivalence between continental drift (seashells in the Appalachians!) and the crisis we all face.

    I have not seen a rational, supported argument that climate change is not real. Does anyone have one to offer?

    If not can we move on to discussing how to address this monstrous problem?
    GO!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by monadnocky View Post
    But yes. Yes it does. Because she is a child. An exemplary child. Disagree with the message if you will, I have no problem with that (although I would vehemently disagree). Because standards of human decency make it so that we don't "critique" 16 year old girls. Critique the message. Not the child. And yes, she is a child, developmentally and neurologically. How do we "critique" teenagers anyway?
    She wasn't simply 'disagreeing' her performances are belligerent. Her message is rude, finger wagging, condescending, angry, etc. Angrily lecturing the UN 'How dare you....!'

    In plainer terms she is giving people shit. A lot of shit. She is doing much more than advocating for her opinion.

    She should not expect to give people shit without catching shit in return.
     

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Tex View Post
    She wasn't simply 'disagreeing' her performances are belligerent. Her message is rude, finger wagging, condescending, angry, etc. Angrily lecturing the UN 'How dare you....!'

    In plainer terms she is giving people shit. A lot of shit. She is doing much more than advocating for her opinion.

    She should not expect to give people shit without catching shit in return.

    Is there was a way to breed young people like Greta Thunberg and Emma González?
    That's what we need.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    Is there was a way to breed young people like Greta Thunberg and Emma González?
    That's what we need.
    Yes, just ask her parents. I'm sure the processes, behavior modification protocols, and training systems are able to be replicated.
     

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    GTDS on full display.
    Guy Washburn

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    “Instructions for living a life: Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.”
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  6. #106
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by HorsCat View Post
    HE. IS. MOCKING. A. CHILD. WHO. ALSO. HAPPENS. TO. HAVE. A. DISABILITY.

    PERIOD. THE. END.

    Before you reply or continue this discussion, go check out Greta Thunberg's Twitter page. In particular, take a look at how she describes herself. Then compare and contrast that with President Fucking Moron's tweet about her. To the extent you continue to defend him on this, you are defending what is absolutely, unequivocally, 100% indefensible. Donald Trump is human scum. He is a load that should have been swallowed.
    Do you see the irony in your reply? Respect a child, but don't respect the President. Lovely.
     

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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Do you see the irony in your reply? Respect a child, but don't respect the President. Lovely.
    There's not a lick of irony. This "president" deserves nothing but unbridled contempt and disrespect. It is what he has given his whole life and what he deserves 100%. I wouldn't say that of any other POTUS (at least not circa 20th or 21st century).
     

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Do you see the irony in your reply? Respect a child, but don't respect the President. Lovely.
    In what universe would this be considered "irony?"
     

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    It's not about a moron president or an intellectual teen or even the Paris agreement for that matter.

    The issue that needs addressing is so broad and vast yet kinda simple. Simple but to most, if they got it, would seem as devastating as human extinction itself. We have this thing(s) we depend on called the economy, global national, whatever, and we as the inhabitants of this planet by in large could not fathom the change we would need to endure to have an impact that could even come close to helping the generation that will need it most, which I believe has yet to arrive.

    So you can structure a manageable return to a near stone age existence or have future generations be forced into and even worse one. Sounds extreme doesn't it? This assumes we really could even have an impact at this point in the game.

    You can flame on me all you want, it's Sept 24th and still hitting 98f today in my back yard so I'm pretty well acclimated.
    Nick Crumpton
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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Perhaps irony was the wrong word. But I believe you know what I was tying to say.

    But to Davids point, lets get back on track.

    What can we do about this oncoming apocalypse? What makes sense in the real world?
     

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by crumpton View Post
    The issue that needs addressing is so broad and vast yet kinda simple. Simple but to most, if they got it, would seem as devastating as human extinction itself. We have this thing(s) we depend on called the economy, global national, whatever, and we as the inhabitants of this planet by in large could not fathom the change we would need to endure to have an impact that could even come close to helping the generation that will need it most, which I believe has yet to arrive.

    So you can structure a manageable return to a near stone age existence or have future generations be forced into and even worse one. Sounds extreme doesn't it? This assumes we really could even have an impact at this point in the game.
    First: Thanks for actually engaging on the issue.

    Second: Your implication that the only solution is to abandon technology - effectively all of it - presumes that we can't find some technologies that will actually reverse some of the damage that our other technology has done.

    It reminds me of Malthus, who argued that population growth would inevitably result in famine as it outstripped increases in food production. The world population was about one billion people then, and it's about 8 times larger now. We're not running out of food.

    Likewise, there are existing technologies that can reduce co2 emissions per unit of energy. There are also a lot of smart people working to develop other technologies to sequester or otherwise process co2 out of the atmosphere.

    We could use some global political will to create incentives to favor the development and implementation of co2 reduction. A number have already been proposed and are languishing.

    The future is not hopeless. But we require some serious force of will, coordination, and creation of incentives in order to get humanity moving in a direction that both preserves human wealth and the planet's health.
    GO!

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    What can we do about this oncoming apocalypse? What makes sense in the real world?
    Getting rid of this president who seems intent on making it worse would be a good place to start...
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    First: Thanks for actually engaging on the issue.

    Second: Your implication that the only solution is to abandon technology - effectively all of it - presumes that we can't find some technologies that will actually reverse some of the damage that our other technology has done.

    It reminds me of Malthus, who argued that population growth would inevitably result in famine as it outstripped increases in food production. The world population was about one billion people then, and it's about 8 times larger now. We're not running out of food.

    Likewise, there are existing technologies that can reduce co2 emissions per unit of energy. There are also a lot of smart people working to develop other technologies to sequester or otherwise process co2 out of the atmosphere.

    We could use some global political will to create incentives to favor the development and implementation of co2 reduction. A number have already been proposed and are languishing.

    The future is not hopeless. But we require some serious force of will, coordination, and creation of incentives in order to get humanity moving in a direction that both preserves human wealth and the planet's health.
    So you are saying we could continue life pretty much as is and rely on new technologies to undue the damage? The clock is ticking. Actually I'm not advocating abandoning technology. I'm advocating abandoning our way of existing on economies and consumption. Well... hold on, I'm not sure I can handle it either but that's what I'm saying.
    Nick Crumpton
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Greta Thunberg is awesome! I was talking to one of my friends from college that has gone on to be a professor. He is from Norway. Greta's name came up in conversation and he relayed to me something he read about her. She was asked a hypothetical question about what she would do if she saw a ship on the ocean dump trash overboard. Her answer revealed her smarts. She said 1st of all I would not put trash in the ocean herself. This revealed she understood the intent of the question was a kind of trap and was able to defect it. And also that responsibility for the environment started with her and she hoped others would listen. I'm a fan!
     

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    Getting rid of this president who seems intent on making it worse would be a good place to start...
    images.jpeg
     

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    Is there was a way to breed young people like Greta Thunberg and Emma González?
    That's what we need.
    --- our granddaughter Sydney is one of these young people...
    ronnie with a green smile
     

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by crumpton View Post
    So you are saying we could continue life pretty much as is and rely on new technologies to undue the damage? The clock is ticking. Actually I'm not advocating abandoning technology. I'm advocating abandoning our way of existing on economies and consumption. Well... hold on, I'm not sure I can handle it either but that's what I'm saying.
    Yes, and...

    I think we need governmental policies to encourage conservation (carbon taxes; higher CAFE standards, etc.), subsidize green tech (whether solar, windmills or hydroponic urban farming, etc.) and foster innovation through subsidized research, basic science and subsidized industry.

    Individuals won't go green unless incentivized. It's like any other free market dynamic - government should play the role of pushing its citizens towards decisions that benefit the greater good.

    Of course sometimes we see a complex set of incentives in action: Honda makes a decision to buy green electricity both because of its price and to be seen as a responsible company by its customers.
    GO!

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    It's like any other free market dynamic - government should play the role of pushing its citizens towards decisions that benefit the greater good.[/URL]
    When so much is at stake it makes sense that intelligent people would have strong opinions, and would have trouble ceding points to those holding opposite (or at least not complementary views). I count you as one of those intelligent people, and flatter myself that on a good day I can pass for one. In this case, I can't engage much of your point because we have a fundamental disagreement on the meaning of "free market."

    We are in full agreement that incentives are key, and that they are often found in really complex bundles.
     

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    Yes, and...

    I think we need governmental policies to encourage conservation (carbon taxes; higher CAFE standards, etc.), subsidize green tech (whether solar, windmills or hydroponic urban farming, etc.) and foster innovation through subsidized research, basic science and subsidized industry.

    Individuals won't go green unless incentivized. It's like any other free market dynamic - government should play the role of pushing its citizens towards decisions that benefit the greater good.

    Of course sometimes we see a complex set of incentives in action: Honda makes a decision to buy green electricity both because of its price and to be seen as a responsible company by its customers.
    Incentives are good but taxes stop no one. History shows this.
    Nick Crumpton
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    "Tradition is a guide, not a jailer" —Justin Robinson

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    Default Re: Climate Strike September 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    Trump and the GOP Senate and the interests they represent are a significant impediment to any successful attempt to solve the climate crisis. It will be so much easier if we don't have to work around him and waste so much time and treasure in court to block those efforts. Since Trump causes so many other problems as well why not solve them same time?
    Guy Washburn

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