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Thread: Bernie Sanders

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    I'm not a Bernie fan but I believe he's sincere and honest. I believe a lot of experienced Democratic operatives have concluded that a 2020 ticket headed by Sanders would be a loser. For a lot of people in this country the socialist label is a loser. I agree with this. Business people , independents and many never Trumpers would wind up pulling the trigger for Trump with a Sanders nomination. Biden really is the best choice to beat Trump. If Biden were to fall apart the most viable second choice would be Bloomberg in my opinion. I actually believe Bloomberg might make for a better President but my gut tells me that Biden has better electability. -Mike G
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    Interesting that it took out the zero in 40.
    There's a bug in the forum software that's stripping zeros out of links. Gotta look into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    Can you say hypocrite? How The Bidens Earned More Than $3 Million While They Were In The White House

    IMO Joe Biden is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with politicians in the US.
    Sure there's some hypocrisy with wanting to cut Social Security while collecting it, but that article headline is total clickbait BS. The implication is that he got rich off his position as VP. Using the numbers in the article, over 2.4 of that 3 was pre-tax salary. Not small dollars, but not exactly big bucks over 8 years for two people in well paying jobs, especially considering one of those jobs was the Vice President of the United States.

    I'm not really a fan of Biden, but considering some of the absolutely atrocious examples of politicians these days, I think it's a stretch to say Biden is the perfect example of what's wrong.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    IMO Joe Biden is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with politicians in the US.
    I agree that he is sub-optimal and has some baggage but he is one person on a very long list and the dem party doesn't have a monopoly on that!

    As much as Biden isn't who I'd like I see Trump as an extremely destructive personality who is very dangerous to our country generally, and damaging from policy perspectives even when his notions aren't completely off-base.

    But better, forward thinking candidates are being offered, if only people will look beyond their tribal identifications.

    I'd offer more detail but am time and keyboard limited.
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Strongin View Post
    There's a bug in the forum software that's stripping zeros out of links. Gotta look into that.



    Sure there's some hypocrisy with wanting to cut Social Security while collecting it, but that article headline is total clickbait BS. The implication is that he got rich off his position as VP. Using the numbers in the article, over 2.4 of that 3 was pre-tax salary. Not small dollars, but not exactly big bucks over 8 years for two people in well paying jobs, especially considering one of those jobs was the Vice President of the United States.

    I'm not really a fan of Biden, but considering some of the absolutely atrocious examples of politicians these days, I think it's a stretch to say Biden is the perfect example of what's wrong.
    Biden is also not wrong that we need to figure out ways to reform social security where total spend goes down but payouts to vulnerable seniors remain steady or increase. SS, medicare/medicaid, and defense spending alone in an average year add up to roughly 100% of federal revenue.
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Democrat voters have been very supportive of Senator Sanders for many years.
    He was unfairly sidelined by the DNC and the media during the 2016 election cycle.
    It is crucial to "Feel The Bern" and properly make him the Democrat candidate!
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by zachateseverything View Post
    Biden is also not wrong that we need to figure out ways to reform social security where total spend goes down but payouts to vulnerable seniors remain steady or increase.
    Eliminating the contribution cap fixes Social Security's funding issue for all of our lifetimes. Dreaming that SS spending can go down as our population ages is magical thinking. Big defense cuts and a wealth tax are good steps on the way to a more rational budget.
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Peter Shumlin with some insight into how Sanders has operated:

    Bernie 'will play dirty': Ex-Vermont governor slams Sanders - POLITICO
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    See below for the ages of some of the leading candidates at the time of the next Presidential inauguration as that is somewhat of an issue...add to that concern any health issues that would impact someone handling one of the toughest jobs in the world for possibly eight years. You can't pooh pooh the age and health issues and it looks like Bernie doesn't either, as he recently produced the same Doctor's note (3 of them in his case) similar to the one that Trump had written for himself. In Trump's case, he is in his words "extraordinarily healthy" while one of Bernie's notes said that "...he has the mental and physical stamina to fully undertake the rigors of the Presidency."

    Sanders 79
    Bloomberg 78
    Biden 78
    Trump 74
    Warren 71

    Doctor: Trump Dictated Letter Attesting To His 'Extraordinary' Health : The Two-Way : NPR

    3 Months After Heart Attack, Sanders' Doctors Say He's 'Fit' To Be President : NPR
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Bernie was on Rogan's podcast not that long ago, a short episode (for Rogan) at only an hour long, but it was a MUCH better look at who he is than any of the election coverage I've seen.
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by fastupslowdown View Post
    I'm not a Bernie fan but I believe he's sincere and honest. I believe a lot of experienced Democratic operatives have concluded that a 2020 ticket headed by Sanders would be a loser. For a lot of people in this country the socialist label is a loser. I agree with this. Business people , independents and many never Trumpers would wind up pulling the trigger for Trump with a Sanders nomination. Biden really is the best choice to beat Trump. If Biden were to fall apart the most viable second choice would be Bloomberg in my opinion. I actually believe Bloomberg might make for a better President but my gut tells me that Biden has better electability. -Mike G
    At the progressive end of the spectrum I'm much more impressed with Warren than Sanders. Her arguments, and her positions, are much more data-based than ideological. Sanders sees everything through his democratic-socialist lens, and the result is a lack of subtly and nuance that can end up mis-diagnosing a whole range of problems (e.g. racial bigotry ain't a matter of economics) and dismissing people who, y'know, think capitalism isn't simply evil. And while I'm more comfortable with his presentation this election cycle, that's all tempered by his age and health. I do worry that, if Sanders doesn't win the nomination, the Bernie Bros will defect again. And that if Sanders does win it, everyone else will defect...

    As far as the moderates, I'm impressed with Buttigieg, who's smart and incredibly articulate. But a 37 year old mayor? Biden always seems mentally fuzzy to me. Klobuchar hasn't convinced me she's anything but an excellent senator.

    So a billionaire New Yorker? Hmm. I'll be hanging out this weekend with a friend who worked closely with him when he was mayor. I'll pick her brain and get back to you.
    GO!

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    Eliminating the contribution cap fixes Social Security's funding issue for all of our lifetimes. Dreaming that SS spending can go down as our population ages is magical thinking. Big defense cuts and a wealth tax are good steps on the way to a more rational budget.
    There's nothing magical about means testing it which is another fix. I'm all for increasing effective tax rates on high earners and corporations. It's foolish to only attack the problem from that perspective though.
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    I've been a Bernie guy as a result of just a few foundational positions; M4A, union support, opposition to NAFTA, things like that. Being opposed to the Third Way Democratic Party since Clinton, I've never really given Biden's positions a look but I rectified that today. I checked him out at these two sites:

    Joe Biden Views on 22 Issues: A Voter’s Guide - POLITICO
    Joe Biden's Plan to End Violence Against Women | Joe Biden

    There are some historical positions with which I disagree but he's evolved over time, for the better, and who amongst thinking folks wouldn't want to see that in anyone? I shouldn't have posted the earlier link; not helpful. I'll support the nominee but I think today's Joe Biden would be a good, constructive President and needless to say, vastly better than Trump
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by zachateseverything View Post
    There's nothing magical about means testing it which is another fix. I'm all for increasing effective tax rates on high earners and corporations. It's foolish to only attack the problem from that perspective though.
    Means testing benefits is one of the most effective ways the programs are stripped of support. If you have eliminated the cap there is no financial reason to means test...

    This whole means testing of social programs idea is a canard. No one expects the recipients of the GOP tax benefits to be means tested...
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    I think Bernie would do best in a debate with Trump. Not sure he could beat him in the general, but it would be a spirited debate. Biden looks good on paper, but any debate would get fact checked and he's a little fast and loose on those at times. He would create republican sound bites for commercials. Bernie and Warren would not, they seem to hold it together and stay factual.
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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay View Post
    I agree that he is sub-optimal and has some baggage but he is one person on a very long list and the dem party doesn't have a monopoly on that!
    Oh I absolutely agree on the monopoly part. I would love to see pretty much every incumbent in Congress lose their next election.

    People seem to think that because I very often am critical of Democrats, that makes a Republican. I would have identified as a Republican many years ago but no longer; I think both major parties are toxic. To take that further, while I have problems with a lot of her positions, if I was forced to vote for one candidate from the D or R side who is still in the race today it would be Tulsi Gabbard....who of course has zero chance of being the nominee.
    Eat one live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you all day.

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    if I was forced to vote for one candidate from the D or R side who is still in the race today it would be Tulsi Gabbard....who of course has zero chance of being the nominee.
    Same here.

    Iíd say Buttigieg would be my number 2. I canít bring myself to vote Trump but he would be my #3. Warren is out of touch with reality, and Bernie lost me last election when the Democratic Party bamboozled him and he didnít fight it. Iíd have lunch with Biden, but never vote for him as president.
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    I think Bernie would do best in a debate with Trump.
    Compared to Buttigieg, Sanders comes across as


    But regardless...would Trump even participate in a debate? Is there an actual obligation to? Because if he's smart -- he isn't, but there's a 50/50 chance at least one person left in the administration might be...maybe? -- he'd just take a pass.
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    At the progressive end of the spectrum I'm much more impressed with Warren than Sanders.
    We both live in the Commonwealth. I'm having trouble coming up with anything she has truly accomplished for the residents of Massachusetts.

    Lot's of talk, lot's of showing up at events, hammering away at Trump, but "where's the beef" for us?

    Other than writing like 5 or 6 books, middle class guys like me are still "getting screwed" to quote Liz.

    Maybe I missed something.
     

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    We both live in the Commonwealth. I'm having trouble coming up with anything she has truly accomplished for the residents of Massachusetts.

    Maybe I missed something.
    Those long selfie lines don't impress? Tough crowd in Mass. (lol)
    I'm not a Warren fan on policy or personality, but her biggest shortcoming
    is she's very unpopular nationally. She's up there on the most disliked Senator list.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: Bernie Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    But regardless...would Trump even participate in a debate? Is there an actual obligation to? Because if he's smart -- he isn't, but there's a 50/50 chance at least one person left in the administration might be...maybe? -- he'd just take a pass.
    Does Trump seem like the type of person to turn down a TV appearance in front of a huge audience?
     

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