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Thread: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    No one is going to stop trying to become extremely rich because they're going to have to pay 70% of their 11th million in annual income to their government.
    No, but they may have their army of accountants work a little harder to "hide" it. For example:

    Paradise Papers: Queen, Bono and Madonna linked to offshore tax haven files | SBS News
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    How much did their employees pay into federal taxes?

    EDIT to add, I do think it's eff'd up the company itself didn't pay anything.
    I don't know what their employees paid, but its clearly more than a company that paid $0 on $11 billion in profit. They even got a $129 million rebate last year.

    Meanwhile we're cutting corporate tax rates even further. The mind boggles. Amazon doesn't need a dime from any city to build something wherever they want.
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    I have heard some reasonable arguments that HQ2 would end up being a net positive in the long run. There's also convincing arguments to the contrary. There are a lot of variables.

    To me this is about principle and precedent. Local gov should spend public $ to build the platform and environment in which business can thrive. They should not spend $ (in effect) on individual businesses. Investing in the platform encourages organic growth that has a better chance of benefiting everyone in the region; investing in one business can be disruptive and unpredictable.
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    No one is going to stop trying to become extremely rich because they're going to have to pay 70% of their 11th million in annual income to their government.
    No one ever should be forced by the government to give up 70 cents out of 100 cents earned. Not any person, not any dollar, even if its their 11th million dollar. Folks earning 11 million dollars are already paying waaaaay more taxes than you or me. Its a moral question or right & wrong.
    Glenn Thompson
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by htwoopup View Post
    Now that all of that has vented out, I am now going back to bikes only because that gives me joy.
    Jon, thank for your post - please don't be shy!
     

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    This reminds me of the state of Connecticut offering incentives to the Bridgewater Associates hedge fund. I don’t know if they ever built their new HQ, or whether the incentives totaled $70 million or $150 million.

    I do recall it was pretty unseemly at the time, since that was shaking down the state for what amounted to a month’s pay for their CEO.

    I also recall that at the time, they had around 1200 jobs and were forecasting 1000 new high-level jobs over a ten-year period.

    We are well into those 10 years, how many jobs have they added? Were they actually a result of that economic stimulus? How did the state make out?

    Examples abound of pro sport stadiums, Cabela's, and Bass Pro Shops never delivering on their promises once they've extracted the incentives. Where are the examples of this working out in high-tech?

    TH
     

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    And I remember when Boston was thinking of building a heli-port (in the overcrowded Seaport District) just for GE...

    GE to downsize Boston headquarters, reimburse state $87 million | Boston.com
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    And I remember when Boston was thinking of building a heli-port (in the overcrowded Seaport District) just for GE...

    GE to downsize Boston headquarters, reimburse state $87 million | Boston.com
    Good example, and a bipartisan boondoggle.

    I remember when the state house cheered at Baker's State-of-the-State address announcement about luring GE to Boston from Fairfield, CT. It was a cringeworthy moment for me, it seems like a zero sum game, especially when you're poaching from a neighboring state.

    TH
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  9. #149
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
    I'm concerned too. With globalization everything seems to be a race to the bottom.



    I'm not sure its a question of need. I believe its more of that Amazon by virtue of it being a for profit business is responsible to its owners (stockholders) to choose the best deal available. When i go to the doctor, i haggle. I demand every discount & break they are willing to give me. Another patient could rightfully say that i don't need discount and be offended that they didn't get similar pricing. But i 'demanded', they offered, and I accepted.
    OK, I'll play out your example. The doctor should set her rates and fees, and stick with them. Her services are worth what her services are worth, and when she charges you less she's either taking less home or overcharging someone else.

    I read something interesting about 'deals' recently, when buying something from these guys.

    But hey. More power to you. And apparently less to your doctor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
    No one ever should be forced by the government to give up 70 cents out of 100 cents earned. Not any person, not any dollar, even if its their 11th million dollar. Folks earning 11 million dollars are already paying waaaaay more taxes than you or me. Its a moral question or right & wrong.
    Moral? I could not disagree with you more strongly.

    Perhaps you think the people earning these obscene incomes somehow are hundreds or thousands of times more deserving than those earning low incomes. Perhaps you think they actually deserve to make millions of dollars every year. Perhaps you think that they deserve the power and resources to make the rules that let them accumulate more and more power and resources. I don't honestly know what you think about the ultra rich. (I will point out that the obvious corollary to believing the rich are superior is that the poor are inferior. It's amazing how well that lie has been quietly sold by the rich through their political puppets.)

    Me? I think those people are not more deserving than the rest of us, than those who become teachers or soldiers or civil servants. I do not think anyone deserves to make millions of dollars every year. And I think that the rules should favor the preservation of a civil society that allows all of us opportunities to live fulfilling, rewarding, safe and healthy lives. That's my conception of a moral outcome.

    And these people are already paying more than you and me? I do not think so, not in any way that is fair and equitable. You know how the capital gains tax rates compare to income tax rates, right? They are regressive in the extreme.

    So what do you think of the wealth tax on the ultra-rich proposed by Senator Warren?
    GO!

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    And I remember when Boston was thinking of building a heli-port (in the overcrowded Seaport District) just for GE...

    GE to downsize Boston headquarters, reimburse state $87 million | Boston.com
    Note that they're required to return their payoff.
    That's a small grace in this cautionary tale.
    GO!

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
    No one ever should be forced by the government to give up 70 cents out of 100 cents earned. Not any person, not any dollar, even if its their 11th million dollar. Folks earning 11 million dollars are already paying waaaaay more taxes than you or me. Its a moral question or right & wrong.
    That crazy Communist Eisenhower and his 90% marginal tax rate. Good thing lefties like him aren't running things anymore right?
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    That crazy Communist Eisenhower and his 90% marginal tax rate. Good thing lefties like him aren't running things anymore right?
    That infrastructure plan he had was nuts. Socialist pipe dream.



    TH
     

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    The effective (real) tax rate was about 40% and funded infrastructure investments with long term ROI like the interstate highway system...............it didn't fund the generational government dependence of people 'unwilling to work' to quote the proposed fairytale that people are getting 70% from.
    Glenn Thompson
    "More Frame, less Seatpost"

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
    The effective (real) tax rate was about 40% and funded infrastructure investments with long term ROI like the interstate highway system...............it didn't fund the generational government dependence of people 'unwilling to work' to quote the proposed fairytale that people are getting 70% from.
    People (a lot of times smart people that know better) always leave that rather pertinent fact out; the effective rate was, like you wrote, around 40%. Jesus Christ it's painful.

    What I want to know is who is the ultimate arbiter of what an "obscene" amount of income is? Kind of a relative construct, don't you think? I'm sure to a guy mopping floors at McDonald's, $125,000/yr seems pretty obscene. I'm not comfortable telling people that I think they make too much money. If you earn it, you deserve it. And do we make a distinction between a guy who makes a shit-ton of money but creates wealth and employs thousands of people vs. some dipshit like "The Rock" who gets paid $45 million for playing dress-up in movies that lose money?
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    The Green New Deal does NOT say it's going to fund people unwilling to work. Period. It's not hard to look up. Full Text of actual House Resolution
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Fox View Post
    People (a lot of times smart people that know better) always leave that rather pertinent fact out; the effective rate was, like you wrote, around 40%. Jesus Christ it's painful.
    And on the flip side, a lot of smart people who know better are painting AOC's 70% tax bracket proposal as if it was an effective tax rate on people making over $10m. In her proposal, someone making $10.1m would have an effective rate of 36.6% (as opposed to the current rate of 36.3%). I'm pretty convinced that a majority of americans don't understand taxes.
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by ericpmoss View Post
    The Green New Deal does NOT say it's going to fund people unwilling to work. Period. It's not hard to look up. Full Text of actual House Resolution
    Well, the version she published sure did. Check out this link to the New York Times article: Ocasio-Cortez Team Flubs a Green New Deal Summary, and Republicans Pounce - The New York Times
    Glenn Thompson
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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    I'd like to see EVERYONE pay taxes. The estimated 44% of Americans who pay zero Federal taxes should pay, like $10 a month. The elderly, $1 a month.

    That way, everyone feels the bite of taxes, and has some degree of ownership in the Country. No more free rides.

    Fair share, no? Not just the wealthy paying, not just the middle class, who feels it the most. Liberty and justice for all, add taxes too.
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Corso View Post
    I'd like to see EVERYONE pay taxes. The estimated 44% of Americans who pay zero Federal taxes should pay, like $10 a month. The elderly, $1 a month.

    That way, everyone feels the bite of taxes, and has some degree of ownership in the Country. No more free rides.

    Fair share, no? Not just the wealthy paying, not just the middle class, who feels it the most. Liberty and justice for all, add taxes too.
    Which part of a life of poverty qualifies as a free ride? Is it the depression and anxiety, or the physical health problems, or the hopelessness, the anguish of not being able to provide for your family, the demoralizing government forms to fill out for snap benefits? Would adding "the bite of taxes" to this list make us great again?
     

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    Default Re: Amazon campus in Seattle (biosphere content)

    Quote Originally Posted by bcm119 View Post
    Which part of a life of poverty qualifies as a free ride? Is it the depression and anxiety, or the physical health problems, or the hopelessness, the anguish of not being able to provide for your family, the demoralizing government forms to fill out for snap benefits? Would adding "the bite of taxes" to this list make us great again?
    The part of "free ride" is self explanatory. Sure, there are people who can't work. And there are many who can, but don't. 44% of the United States is not in poverty.

    Don't worry, what I'd like to see won't ever happen. I guess heaping more taxes on everyone else is the solution.
     

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