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Thread: 2020 Political Chatter

  1. #1201
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    It's a form of it. Yes, there are some restrictions on eligibility (as there would be with UBI), and there's some variation in the amount paid (as there also would likely be with UBI).

    The idea that SSI is an earned benefit (usually emphasized by people who are taking out more than they put in) isn't much more true than it would be of UBI. Both SSI and a UBI are redistributive efforts to guarantee a basic level of sustenance and alleviate deep poverty.
    I'm making no argument for or against UBI, but describing the US Social Security system as UBI doesn't compute for me (speaking with my tax accountant hat on). People pay into SS. The amounts they draw in retirement are based on the work they did in their career and amounts they paid in. They are not eligible to draw payments from that fund until they reach a certain age. It is not universal. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but I don't see how comparing/conflating SS with UBI helps someone make a case for UBI. Admittedly, I am not SS expert.

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    If it really mattered, the electoral college process, could swing the vote either way. The Clinton gang gave it a shot 4 years ago when they tried to convince the electors that Trump was dangerous. It is more important now that what little faith in the electoral process that remains is preserved. Trump will move out. The EC is the fail safe for when the landed gentry can't steer one man one vote within prescribed limits.
    Jeff Hazeltine

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    I'm making no argument for or against UBI, but describing the US Social Security system as UBI doesn't compute for me (speaking with my tax accountant hat on). People pay into SS. The amounts they draw in retirement are based on the work they did in their career and amounts they paid in. They are not eligible to draw payments from that fund until they reach a certain age. It is not universal. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but I don't see how comparing/conflating SS with UBI helps someone make a case for UBI. Admittedly, I am not SS expert.
    We've framed SS as a work-based program to make it acceptable to Americans by emphasizing the connection between paying in and taking out, as if it were a retirement plan instead of a social safety net program. But the relationship between work and payment was always designed to be loose, and of course every generation so far has drawn out a good bit more than they've collectively paid, redistributing money from the young to the old. In its end goal and in its redistributive method, a UBI tries to do the same thing as SS. The only real difference is the superficial connection of SS to individual labor, although that does somehow seem to make all the difference to some people.

    My only point earlier was that retirees are already beneficiaries of a massively redistributive social program designed to make sure people aren't starving. It seems a bit hypocritical for them to be dead set against a program designed to provide everyone else with a similar level of security.

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Cycling content: this was seen on today's ride. It was a beautiful, unseasonably warm day in CNY, 67F and mostly sunny. Even the sight of Trumpism conflated with Christianity couldn't ruin the ride. Apparently the faithful are praying his election is resurrected by the Pennsylvania and Michigan legislators.

    Greg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    News here is that the Michigan state leaders left the meeting where they were being bullied by Trump and said that they hadn't been presented with any information that would make them change the outcome of the election in Michigan (where Trump lost by about 150,000 votes). This, on top of Georgia officially certifying Trump's loss there came with this photo:

    Giuliani.jpg
    and the caption:

    "Trump's chances of overturning the result are dissolving as fast as Giuliani's hair dye"

  6. #1206
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kelly View Post

    "Trump's chances of overturning the result are dissolving as fast as Giuliani's hair dye"
    When I saw those photos I assumed someone had photo shopped them. Didn’t realise people did it in real life - I’ve only seen it in Poirot!

    Anyhoo, all a bit sad but my enjoyment of this debacle has been much enhanced by three people I learnt of here:

    Sarah Cooper
    Gathara (on Twitter - thanks Mark)
    And the First Dog on the Moon cartoons.

    And just to prove real real life is best an interview ending with a Trump fan saying “Donald Trump is a genius - that’s what the J stands for!”
    Colin Mclelland

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kelly View Post
    News here is that the Michigan state leaders left the meeting where they were being bullied by Trump and said that they hadn't been presented with any information that would make them change the outcome of the election in Michigan (where Trump lost by about 150,000 votes). This, on top of Georgia officially certifying Trump's loss there came with this photo:

    Giuliani.jpg
    and the caption:

    "Trump's chances of overturning the result are dissolving as fast as Giuliani's hair dye"
    To borrow a line from Goodfellas

    May fold under questioning

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Fair Fight is boosting 13 Georgia organizations by raising and giving over $2.7 million ahead of the Jan. 5 runoffs.

    These groups work tirelessly on the ground to educate and mobilize voters. Join me in supporting them👇🏿#gapol

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/politic...MQVBTSKQSS2NA/

    Come on, folks; pitch in. Volunteer, contribute, both. Dig deep.

    This is not a drill.
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  9. #1209
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by jclay View Post
    Fair Fight is boosting 13 Georgia organizations by raising and giving over $2.7 million ahead of the Jan. 5 runoffs.

    These groups work tirelessly on the ground to educate and mobilize voters. Join me in supporting them����#gapol

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/politic...MQVBTSKQSS2NA/

    Come on, folks; pitch in. Volunteer, contribute, both. Dig deep.

    This is not a drill.
    https://fairfight.com/about-stacey-abrams/ This is the org....as John notes, if you can...please donate. PLUS we need to continue the pressure moving ahead to the mid-term elections as well. Do not relent.

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyChix View Post
    https://fairfight.com/about-stacey-abrams/ This is the org....as John notes, if you can...please donate. PLUS we need to continue the pressure moving ahead to the mid-term elections as well. Do not relent.
    Midterms and down-ballots

    Then in a few years, there's an election for Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice position (elected on 10-year terms)

  11. #1211
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Holy cow gorgeous weather yesterday. Under the working theory that if you can't go long go hard, I did and than some. Hopefully did not frighten the teenager on the Chris Boardman TT bike which looked like a proto-type he used (?) Pretty cool toy for a young up and comer. Anywho...

    The Hail Mary is more of a delay tactic than serious play. Sorry, coals to Newcastle.

    Read this: http://resources.utulsa.edu/law/clas...eralist/70.htm

    Also, OMMFG >>> elite strike force team. Best laugh I've had in four years. "Release the Kraken" indeed. Bite my shiny metal arse.

  12. #1212
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Michigan's Board of State Canvassers voted 3:0:1 to approve the election. It's a different set of four people (two from each party). Hours of people making comments, challenges, etc. but at the end of the day: our state election results have been certified. The guy who didn't vote against used abstain to avoid sullying his record for his future political aspirations.

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...rs/6388768002/

  13. #1213
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyChix View Post
    Michigan's Board of State Canvassers voted 3:1 to approve the election. It's a different set of four people (two from each party). Hours of people making comments, challenges, etc. but at the end of the day: our state election results have been certified.

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...rs/6388768002/
    It’s absurd that this isn’t unanimous. The GOP has presented zero credible evidence of voter fraud. I hope history judges these moves and this party harshly. They undermine democratic principles.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    GSA acknowledges Biden is the "apparent" winner and releases transition funds.

    https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...a1923f52eebbad

  15. #1215
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    It’s absurd that this isn’t unanimous. The GOP has presented zero credible evidence of voter fraud. I hope history judges these moves and this party harshly. They undermine democratic principles.
    Shinkle reportedly has ambitions to be RNC chair or such, so he abstained to keep a no vote off his record. Sure hope people remember what he did today (and in recent days).

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    rw saunders
    peace, solidarity and coffee

  17. #1217
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Thank you SpeedOne.

    In other news R.W. is winning this thread.

  18. #1218
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Barry Blitt in the current New Yorker

    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    “Instructions for living a life: Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.”
    – Mary Oliver

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Over 30 Trump Campaign Lawsuits Have Failed. Some Rulings Are Scathing.

    "Judges, a generally sober lot, are not as a rule given to snark, sarcasm or outbursts of emotion in their orders.

    But in the nearly three dozen lawsuits challenging the 2020 election that the Trump campaign and its proxies have either lost or withdrawn in recent weeks, a number of judges have lost patience.

    Here are some scathing excerpts from their rulings:
    Pennsylvania
    Oct. 10

    “Perhaps Plaintiffs are right that guards should be placed near drop boxes, signature-analysis experts should examine every mail-in ballot, poll watchers should be able to man any poll regardless of location, and other security improvements should be made. But the job of an unelected federal judge isn’t to suggest election improvements, especially when those improvements contradict the reasoned judgment of democratically elected officials.”

    “Put differently, federal judges can have a lot of power — especially when issuing injunctions. And sometimes we may even have a good idea or two. But the Constitution sets out our sphere of decision-making, and that sphere does not extend to second-guessing and interfering with a state’s reasonable, nondiscriminatory election rules.”

    Judge J. Nicholas Ranjan of the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania, dismissing the Trump campaign’s attempt to stop Pennsylvania counties from using ballot drop boxes and from tallying absentee ballots that were not in a “secrecy” envelope.
    Nov. 21

    “This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together… This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more.”

    Judge Matthew W. Brann of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, dismissing the Trump campaign’s attempt to block certification of Pennsylvania’s election result. (The state certified its results on Tuesday.)

    Texas
    Nov. 2

    “Here, the court finds the plaintiffs did not act with alacrity. There has been an increasing amount of conversation and action around the subject of implementing drive-through voting since earlier this summer…”

    “At virtually any point, but certainly by October 12, 2020, plaintiffs could have filed this action. Instead, they waited until October 28, 2020 at 9:08 p.m. to file their complaint and did not file their actual motion for temporary relief until midday on October 30, 2020 — the last day of early voting.”

    Judge Andrew S. Hanen of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, dismissing a Republican-led lawsuit seeking to end drive-through voting in heavily Democratic Harris County, Texas."
    Last edited by guido; 11-26-2020 at 08:09 AM.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com

    “Instructions for living a life: Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.”
    – Mary Oliver

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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    This thread seems to have gone quiet. Does this mean that you are all more relaxed about an orderly transition between one administration and another? I hope so.

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