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Thread: 2020 Political Chatter

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post

    They already do.
    But that's the task at hand. If there is no process to build some way forward that shares values,
    nothing will change, no progress will happen, and the outcome of that is extremely bleak.

    It won't be the extreme wings of either party, but some new coalition needs to form in order for society to function.
    That coalition will have to come to understand that a functioning politics is necessary,
    and the revenge for past sins of the other sides must be sacrificed in order to more forward.
    They'll decide that re-litigating the past is less important than deciding to choose a future.

    Or, you can keep replaying your favorite tragedy until the whole place is burnt to the ground.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

  2. #102
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    Trump doesn't want to be re-elected, what he needs is a way to save face, to 'win' by losing the election.

    He wants return to his lifestyle being complain about stuff instead of being expected to actually work.
    Democratic strategy is to provide that exit door. Start talking of full pardons and statues.

    -g
    Maybe and maybe he has two choices. Four more yrs. to figure out how to stay out of jail or skedaddle to a country with no extradition.

    FWIIW I've been taking side bets since his election that DJT would be the first ex-pat president.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Maybe and maybe he has two choices. Four more yrs. to figure out how to stay out of jail or skedaddle to a country with no extradition.

    FWIIW I've been taking side bets since his election that DJT would be the first ex-pat president.
    He can live like ex-pat within the US when you're a billionaire.
    At 74, he doesn't have that many years left, i think he takes the exit if there is a path.
    Someone should just write him a nice big cheque, that's the score he keeps track of.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

  4. #104
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    But that's the task at hand. If there is no process to build some way forward that shares values,
    nothing will change, no progress will happen, and the outcome of that is extremely bleak.
    And again, I don't disagree...but there are dozens if not hundreds of ways to achieve that objective that do not include Full Pardon For Criminals.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    And again, I don't disagree...but there are dozens if not hundreds of ways to achieve that objective that do not include Full Pardon For Criminals.
    I'd say it is a crap shoot right now whether if he gets re-elected, and if he does, the democratic institutions can remain intact.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    I don't disagree... but then what do we have to lose?

    Y'know what I'm not gonna lose? One minute of sleep worrying about how his base is gonna spin a fair trial that results in Donnie T going to jail for genuine crimes. So any Dem who's going to make the case for "full pardons" is going to have to provide a much more compelling argument than simply "the other team will oppose everything we do"

    They already do.
    Agreed, and what stoked so much resentment among white working class voters who were traditionally strongly in the D camp was, in part, the Obama administration letting so many Wall St folks walk after the last financial crisis. Hell, one of them is now the Secretary of the Friggin Treasury.

    Trump's got enough problems with his various legal issues that once he's out of office no Presidential pardons will save him. Full truth and reconciliation on all the graft, corruption and criminal behavior of this administration. Anything less would be the height of irresponsibility to the country.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Maybe and maybe he has two choices. Four more yrs. to figure out how to stay out of jail or skedaddle to a country with no extradition.

    FWIIW I've been taking side bets since his election that DJT would be the first ex-pat president.
    Flights to Moscow departing daily.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    it's political suicide if you don't. Americans seem too close to this situation, you think there are good options on the table.

    You are already completely FUCKED.

    If Dems and the "deep state" start talking about making a martyr of him,
    you'll ensure that you have 60 million Trump voters who will oppose everything you stand for.
    If you want a war - keep on present course.

    Trump will be gone one day, the question on the table is what do you do with the supporters
    and the lessons of his time in power. When Trump is gone, so is the religion, since he stands
    for nothing but chaos and bullying.

    So if you're going to war, you better have a plan to win it. Good luck, you need it.

    -g
    who gave you a crystal ball?
    Jay Dwight

  9. #109
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    A friend made this.


    https://vimeo.com/454762509
    Last edited by thollandpe; 09-04-2020 at 10:05 PM.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin

  10. #110
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    it is what it is indeed
    Jay Dwight

  11. #111
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by ides1056 View Post
    who gave you a crystal ball?
    Know what you get when a dog a two cats are fighting and the dog decides to leave? Two cats fighting.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    These images are just so alien. Anyone walking around with an assault rifle would be arrested in Oz.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/ga...st-famous-race

  13. #113
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    These images are just so alien. Anyone walking around with an assault rifle would be arrested in Oz.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/ga...st-famous-race
    They're pretty alien to some of us here, too. Growing up, the only time I ever saw a person with an "assault rifle"* in public was when the National Guard took to the streets of Miami after Hurricane Andrew leveled large swaths of our community. The fact that we've gotten to a place where peaceful and constitutionally protected free speech is met with counter protestors playing a dangerous game of tactical dress up is disappointing and embarrassing. The only silver lining is that it finally undermines the long time claims of militias that they exist as a last line of defense against government overreach. If that were the case they would be defenders of the constitution, not just the second amendment. But no, now it's clear that, for the most part, their purpose is to use intimidation to maintain the status quo. One notable exception being the NFAC, one of the groups in those photos.

    *For the record, I didn't put "assault rifle" in quotes to make the point that AR doesn't stand for assault rifle or that all rifles can be used to assault or any of the other 2A crowd's arguments in support of those weapons. I put it in quotes because the National Guardspeople I saw in Miami after that devastating storm had the real deal, military issued weapons.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

  14. #114
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    ‘I Keep My Promises,’ Trump Said. Let’s Check. | New York Times

    Here’s a report card on whether the president met his 2016 campaign pledges.

    "Four years ago as a candidate, President Trump made more than 280 campaign promises. Let’s see how he did:

    “I will build a great, great wall on our southern border …” (speech, June 16, 2015)

    While Trump so far has built 307 miles of walls along the 1,984-mile border, much of this replaces previous barriers that were dilapidated or blocked only vehicles.

    “… and I will have Mexico pay for that wall.”

    Mexico is not paying for it. The new wall is costing about $30 million per mile and will be expensive to maintain, for human smugglers have cut open the wall with $50 cordless saws.

    “We will find them [all undocumented immigrants], we will get them out.” (CNN interview, July 29, 2015)

    Trump deported about 750,000 undocumented immigrants in his first three years in office, but most were trying to get into the country, not already living here. He never tried to remove all undocumented immigrants. He did unleash a reign of terror directed at migrants, including separating young children from family members, and that may be one reason the total number of undocumented immigrants fell slightly. Still, Trump actually deported fewer people in his first three years than Barack Obama had — a comparison neither man will appreciate.

    “We will also be a country of law and order. … The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon, and I mean very soon, come to an end. Beginning on Jan. 20 of 2017, safety will be restored.” (speech, July 21, 2016)

    Trump himself implicitly acknowledges that he has failed to create law and order, saying, “There is violence and danger in the streets” (speech, Aug. 27, 2020). Periodically, he incites that violence.

    “The most basic duty of government is to defend the lives of its own citizens. Any government that fails to do so is a government unworthy to lead.” (speech, July 21, 2016)

    The United States has lost more than 185,000 people to the coronavirus pandemic. On a per-capita basis, that’s more than twice as many as Canada and five times as many as Germany. America has 4 percent of the world’s population and 22 percent of the world’s confirmed Covid-19 deaths.

    “We’re going to work with all of our students who are drowning in debt to take the pressure off these young people.” (speech, July 21, 2016)

    Trump has sought to alter the terms of student loan repayments so that students would have to pay an additional $200 billion over a decade. He also attempted to cancel the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.

    “We will repeal and replace disastrous Obamacare.” (speech, July 21, 2016)

    Trump has not succeeded in repealing the Affordable Care Act, although he is still pursuing a lawsuit that would overturn it. He has never explained what would replace it.

    “You’re going to have great health care at a much lower price. It will cost the United States nothing.” (remarks, July 27, 2018)

    Partly because of Trump’s assaults on the Affordable Care Act, the number of uninsured people in the United States has risen for the first time in a decade. An additional 400,000 children are without insurance."
    Last edited by guido; 09-06-2020 at 06:36 AM.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com
    "I think that the whole Republican Party has been put in a position, with a few notable exceptions, of being mildly intimidated by the sitting President." Joe Biden, President Elect.
    “A lawsuit without provable facts showing a statutory or constitutional violation is just a tweet with a filing fee,” said Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.
    “Instructions for living a life: Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.”
    – Mary Oliver

  15. #115
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    The Return of American Fascism

    "Whatever one’s opinion of Donald Trump, there is no denying that his political success to date represents its own kind of triumph of the will, one built on a political carnivalesque. Trump’s manifest need for the adoration of his crowd, his desire to exhibit to the world the cheering hordes of his political rallies, may seem like an ersatz copy of the authentic rallies of fascist leaders of yore. The fact that show business is at the heart of Trump’s unstable political ­project sometimes leads to the argument that Trump isn’t fascist, but merely an ­entertainer. Fascism was always about entertainment, however: the deep root of its poison was that it made hatred entertaining."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/interna...erican-fascism

    It's well worth reading though the general historical foundations shouldn't be a surprise.

    And this video is as comical as it is frightening, like a good sci-fi thriller; except it isn't fiction. These people vote and are armed to the teeth:

    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  16. #116
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Justice Dept. Intervenes to Help Trump in E. Jean Carroll Defamation Lawsuit | New York Times

    "The Justice Department moved on Tuesday to replace President Trump’s private legal team with government lawyers to defend him against a defamation lawsuit by the author E. Jean Carroll, who has accused him of raping her in a Manhattan department store in the 1990s.

    In a highly unusual legal move, lawyers for the Justice Department said in court papers that Mr. Trump was acting in his official capacity as president when he denied ever knowing Ms. Carroll and thus could be defended by government lawyers — in effect underwritten by taxpayer money.

    Though the law gives employees of the federal government immunity from most defamation lawsuits, legal experts said it has rarely, if ever, been used before to protect a president, especially for actions taken before he entered office.

    “The question is,” said Steve Vladeck, a University of Texas law professor, “is it really within the scope of the law for government lawyers to defend someone accused of lying about a rape when he wasn’t even president yet?”

    The motion also effectively protects Mr. Trump from any embarrassing disclosures in the middle of his campaign for re-election. A state judge issued a ruling last month that potentially opened the door to Mr. Trump being deposed in the case before the election in November, and Ms. Carroll’s lawyers have also requested that he provide a DNA sample to determine whether his genetic material is on a dress that Ms. Carroll said she was wearing at the time of the encounter.

    Ms. Carroll’s lawyer said in a statement issued Tuesday evening that the Justice Department’s move to intervene in the case was a “shocking” attempt to bring the resources of the United States government to bear on a private legal matter.

    “Trump’s effort to wield the power of the U.S. government to evade responsibility for his private misconduct is without precedent,” the lawyer, Roberta A. Kaplan, said, “and shows even more starkly how far he is willing to go to prevent the truth from coming out.”

    Ms. Carroll herself accused the president of siccing Attorney General William P. Barr against her. “TRUMP HURLS BILL BARR AT ME,” she wrote on Twitter."
    Last edited by guido; 09-09-2020 at 06:48 AM.
    Guy Washburn

    Photography > www.guywashburn.com
    "I think that the whole Republican Party has been put in a position, with a few notable exceptions, of being mildly intimidated by the sitting President." Joe Biden, President Elect.
    “A lawsuit without provable facts showing a statutory or constitutional violation is just a tweet with a filing fee,” said Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.
    “Instructions for living a life: Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.”
    – Mary Oliver

  17. #117
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Some cold water for those who think Biden is a lock to win: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-behind-trump/.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Anyone who signed off on that petition from DoJ should be disbarred.

    At very minimum, they should have to try to explain why the President defending himself against a rape allegation by saying she "wasn't his type" is in keeping with the duties of the Presidency.

    Our government is currently being run by grifters and mole people.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    so much optimism, Keep America Grating
    Matt Zilliox

  20. #120
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Tя☭mp Jr. commenting on Killshot Kyle: "We all do stupid things at 17."

    Oh, and in Woodward's new book, Donald on February 7th admits the virus is deadly.

    He's a murderer. But, oh wait, you can't use his own words against him.

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